Big & Rich/Musik Mafia

Scott Shipley · Post by **Scott Shipley** » 20 Jul 2007 3:37 pm

Good point. I wonder what folks thought about Flatt and Scruggs at Carnegie Hall in 1962? Or "hillbilly music" at The Ryman, after Enrico Caruso himself had performed there only a few years before. Don't forget that it was originally built as a church. Let alone "Grand Ol Opry" music after "Grand Ol Opera" music in 1925 on WSM (however the now famous name was not actually conceived until 1928). Uncle Jimmy Thompson was hardly classically trained (and he was not the first old-time performer on the show, "Dr. Humphrey Bate and his string quartet of old-time musicians" had appeared over one month earlier). And what about those long-haired-dirty-hippy-types that ruirnt that Carter Family classic in '72?
Point is, give the guys a break. If Jon Ban-Jovi has found a new career direction and can continue to make a living and contribute to the musical landscape, so what?
I'm usually too busy out trying to earn 50 cents to be able to listen to the Opry, but when I do get to, if there is someone I don't want to listen to, I put on a 78 of something that I do.
Like that great philosopher E. Dale Tubb once said, "Why don't you leave them boys alone an' let 'em sing their song."

Barry Blackwood · Post by **Barry Blackwood** » 21 Jul 2007 6:41 am

IMO, this is more about Bon Jovi grubbing money than anything musical, likewise their recent lawsuit.

Theresa Galbraith · Post by **Theresa Galbraith** » 22 Jul 2007 11:08 am

As mentioned by Dave, "Lost in the Moment" 1st #1 for Big & Rich! Congrat's & way to go Mike Johnson!

Ron Sodos · Post by **Ron Sodos** » 24 Jul 2007 2:50 pm

This is pointed at Theresa and the others who think just cause you sell records that makes you credible. I could sell heroin and get rich. Does that make me a valued member of the community. Big and Rich/Bon Jovi/Van Zant are nothing but prostitutes making lots of money on the ignorance of the public that is controlled like robots by the big record labels. Except for Dale Watson/Justin Trevino/Amber Digby/Bobby Flores/Jody Nix and a few select others music (not only country)died a long time ago. I am not a country purist. I have played jazz/rock/funk and other kinds of music since the early 70's. The funk has died(Earth Wind and Fire/Ohio Players etc) Jazz has gone to being way too outside for me (I still like Bird, Monk and Charles Lloyd) Rock died years ago (Bon Jovi was never part of that scene. He was and always has been doing teeny bopper garbage. Van Zandt had some good stuff years ago and now are trying to BS the public. So there you have it INMHO. I went on a trip to Austin and San Antonio in June and was completely recharged by the stuff they are still doing down there....

Stephanie Carta · Post by **Stephanie Carta** » 24 Jul 2007 7:20 pm

The worst part of new country today is all the research and marketing they've done to figure out who their audience is and where they can make the most money. I can't imagine how terribly wrong they've got it. They seem to focus on young women from teens to forties and throw everyone else away. That doesn't make financial sense to me, and it certainly does not surprise me that there are upset PSG players out there. I would rather listen to you guys than pop entertainers time. I can't relate to anything the major artists sing. I want heroes and people I admire and respect to entertain and move me. Pop country just leaves me cold if that is what they think young women are into.. not me!!

Leslie Ehrlich · Post by **Leslie Ehrlich** » 25 Jul 2007 12:02 am

This thread is like so many other threads questioning the 'quality' of new country music. What I find common to all of them is the fear that traditional whiney country style E9th pedal steel guitar is quickly becoming a thing of the past.

I say so what? Lots of styles have come and gone, and there's nothing you can do about it. I used to complain about what rock guitarists are doing nowadays (i.e. punk and nu metal stuff), but all I do by complaining is waste a lot of mental energy.

When it comes right down to it, no one is holding a gun to my head and telling me to listen to the radio or watch TV. I just avoid it and listen to recordings of the music I like.

Michael Douchette · Post by **Michael Douchette** » 25 Jul 2007 12:23 am

Stephanie Carta wrote:They seem to focus on young women from teens to forties and throw everyone else away.

How some things never change... my Dad was a big time radio jock/programmer in the '50's and '60's... the target demographic was the same. "The women are at home, listening, not their husbands. Do what it takes to get their money, and hubby's will follow."

Jerry Hayes R.I.P. · Post by **Jerry Hayes R.I.P.** » 25 Jul 2007 7:29 pm

I'm just glad at age 67 someone like Big and Rich came along! Personally I like Big Kenny's vocal timbre and John Rich can actually sing IMHO! It's cool how on "Save a Horse/Ride a Cowboy" the band'll do a smokin' distortion rock guitar ride followed in the same instrumental break by some good country fiddle while all along there's a five string banjo rollin' in the background! I think whoever produced that cut was a musical genius.

I think that a lot of the same prejudices surfaced about 36 or 37 years ago when Neil Young cut his classic "Harvest" album. Ben Keith played some very nice steel on "Heart of Gold", "Old Man Take a Look at my Life" and other things Neil recorded. I remember some of my friends saying that steel guitar didn't belong in "that" music and really dissed it.

I love classic country as much or more than anyone I can think of but I always try to look for the good in anything that comes along. It's hard at times and it took me a good while to get into Lynyrd Skynyrd but since moving to Va. about 21 years ago I've had to learn a lot of it and really like doing those things now! Check out "I Know a Little" for some great guitar work by the late Steve Gaines.

In closing, keep it up Kenny & John along with Cowboy Troy and old "Two Foot Fred" and if you're ever in my area I'll probably not be at your concert but I'll buy a CD...........JH in Va.

Bill Dobkins · Post by **Bill Dobkins** » 28 Jul 2007 3:58 pm

I like some of Big N Rich,Shania,Grecthen ect. I like anyone who goes against the establishment. John Rich was writing country long before Big n Rich. I've heard some really good country done by them but not enough to call them country. but I also like Blues and older Rock which is exactly what they are.
Country to me is Josh Turner, Gene Watson,Darrell McCall ect. There is room for all this music but wright now its just a mixed up mess and should be catigorized. One thing the outragious music of the new stars has done is get the younger people interested in this so called country music. I predict that good solid country is coming back and these new stars will either come with it or lose out. and along with it will come the fans. It seems about every 15 years, music goes through a period of weird change but the good solid stuff is still here and I beleive will always be.

Kevin Hatton · Post by **Kevin Hatton** » 28 Jul 2007 6:46 pm

Hey Dave, get that ZB out there on stage and I'll buy a ticket. You'll have a whole section of ZB nuts stairing at you from the third row.

John Steele (deceased) · Post by **John Steele (deceased)** » 28 Jul 2007 7:23 pm

Re; the target demographic:
I stumbled across a CMA concert on t.v. the other night, and after about 10 minutes of it, had to check the directory to make sure I wasn't watching "The View".
-John

Ken Thompson · Post by **Ken Thompson** » 31 Jul 2007 9:26 am

I just found this thread and found it very intersting so I want to share a short story with all of you.

Awhile back we were playing in a club that we play in about 8 times per year. It is a club that starts out with an older crowd and ends up with the college crowd. There is an older couple that is there every time we play and they stay most of the night. Along with them was a 30's something gal that also attends and praises us each time we play. While having a conversation with them they told me that they didn't like "country and western" music. This coming after we had just done a whole set (early in the night) of classic country stuff. I was shocked when they said that they did not consider us a country band but a variety band. We do play a touch of everything ie. Poison, ACDC, Elvis and even the Beach Boys but the majority of our material is old and new country. I had an identity crises right there since I had played country all my life (55 yoa). They said that the difference between our country music and the rest of the country bands was that we played with energy and every song did not sound the same. We try to put a little of country in the other stuff instead of putting the rock in our country.

I have sat in with a few other "traditional" country bands and found that I began to get a little bored with it after awhile. I love doing a little of everything with the good ole traditional country being the frosting on my cake. I now look forward to those great songs during the course of the night.

Like someone said, there was fluff thirty years ago as there is today. I try to find the good in all of it and savor and prize the few great songs that are out there.

Thanks for you time.
Ken

Marlin Smoot · Post by **Marlin Smoot** » 31 Jul 2007 11:39 pm

Just about every product you buy or have seen because of marketing has been researched - just like the music buyers that are researched.

Not everyone will like or agree with the research because it doesn't fit their views or they are not in the demo researched and will not understand why people have prefrences they way they do.

Marketing can only make people aware - the consumer still votes with their dollars. I haven't seen a label make anyone buy a CD.

Bill Dobkins · Post by **Bill Dobkins** » 3 Aug 2007 2:35 pm

Marlin Smoot wrote:Just about every product you buy or have seen because of marketing has been researched - just like the music buyers that are researched.

Not everyone will like or agree with the research because it doesn't fit their views or they are not in the demo researched and will not understand why people have prefrences they way they do.

Marketing can only make people aware - the consumer still votes with their dollars. I haven't seen a label make anyone buy a CD.

Comercialzation dosen't hurt either: I've heard a song on the radio and hated it but they played it so much I found myself humming it.
I know research is done but if you didn't know about the product you wouldn't buy it.

Jim Walker · Post by **Jim Walker** » 7 Aug 2007 1:23 am

Only thing that makes me sick about Big and Rich is that I'm not in the band. I'm totaly cool with what they are doing and how they sound live. Besides steel I play lead / rythym guitar, harmonica, bass and I sing harmony. Hook a brother up Dave!

Mark Treepaz · Post by **Mark Treepaz** » 7 Aug 2007 7:54 am

Theresa Galbraith wrote:The new single "Lost in the Moment" by Big & Rich has steel accompanied by John Legend. Not to shabby, again this helps steel in other musicial areas.

Obsolete, nah!

"Lost in the Moment" is in itself a good song. Good lyrics, good arrangement, good hook etc. However, I have a real hard time finding it to be a "country" song. To me, it belongs more on a hip-hop or urban pop station. And yes, it has steel in it, but the steel just seems to be making more "noises" rather than playing anything of any substance. I certainly don't mean to imply any reflection of the steeler himself, but rather the producer(s) of the tune. Just as adding an accordion to a song doesn't automatically make it a polka, just having a steel in a song doesn't make it country.

As far as an overall view of B&R as "country artists", I'm with Kevin and Doug on this one. Just MHO of course..

Theresa Galbraith · Post by **Theresa Galbraith** » 7 Aug 2007 8:10 am

Mark,
I respect your take on this song and B&R.
The steel is out front and not noise to my ears. It makes the song in my opinion.

It's not traditional country, but then I don't care about name calling. It doesn't keep me from liking it!

Ken Thompson · Post by **Ken Thompson** » 7 Aug 2007 12:38 pm

B&R played our state fair last week and were highest attended concert up against Dierks Bently, Sara Evans, Miranda Lambert and others. I chose not to go because I don't care for their music but everyone I talked to loved their show.

The thing I found interesting was the stories I heard that related to their humbleness and professionalism back stage. They sound like a class act in that regard.

We can all choose to listen or not to listen to their music but I respect anyone that kind find a niche in that buisiness and remain humble in the eye of the popularity storm.

Just my 2 cents.

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Big & Rich/Musik Mafia

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