Tommy Young Mods.

[Al Terhune]

And Mickey: You're barking up the wrong tree. Puncutation has nothing to do with intelligence or engineering. Tommy, perhaps, might not be schooled in typing skills and grammar, but he obviously knows guitars. You possibly might look into your integrity.

[Billy Carr]

Mod works. Period! Tone is what's important after everything is said and done.

[Dale Stacy]

It would most definitely be great if everyone had the opportunity to experience the obvious difference before and after. In fairness to all who have commented and have doubts, you are at a disadvantage not being able to compare even your instrument to a guitar that has been moded.
As I have stated previously in other post, I have three guitars all with the mod performed on each at different times which has allowed me to compare one to another. Totally amazing the difference. In fact not even close in comparison. My guitars have tone, sustain, and clarity with no screaming highs and no muddy sound.
Now I don't expect all to package their guitars tomorrow and send to Tommy , but I know if you had experienced what Billy Carr, Jim Parker and I have, as well as a few others , then you'd probably do so.Finallly this is absolutely no gimmick or such.

[Curt Langston]

Well, it is my opinion that if an individual will not even hint at just what the so-called "mod" is, then they will not be recieving my guitar to "mod".

A pedal steel guitar is too expensive of an instrument to be sending off to have someone file around on it.

If the guitar manufacturers thought that their guitars needed Tommys touch, they would recommend it.

So far I have not heard of a single builder suggesting that their guitar needs to be sent off to Tommy to be "modded".

Like I said, the "placebo effect".

Save your money, and play your guitar.

Forget about some mysterious "mod"...............

By the way, I have some Snake oil that will cure anything.

29.99 a bottle...........................

[Jim Palenscar]

"spell-checking your emails for the adult population. (thats a period...it seperates sentences)"
To critique the critique, the word "thats" is a contraction for the phrase "that is" and needs an apostrophe between the "t" and the "s" as in "that's" and modern versions of spell checkers have found a new way to spell "separates"
- all of us make mistakes- I made one in this post and decided to fix it- but it doesn't affect my work

[Mike Wheeler]

IMHO, and from what I've read of Tommy's mod, it is nondestructive...it's a custom tune up, an adjustment of many facets of the steel's parts. If I'm wrong, Tommy will have to correct me.

I've "modded" every guitar I have ever had...new pickups, adjust screw tensions, added levers or pedals, etc. There was never any problems with mfg. warranties since I wasn't changing the guitar itself. I can't speak for any mfg.s, but I doubt this kind of work would void a warranty.

So, how can anyone assume, or even insinuate, that Tommy's mods would void a warranty...especially when one admits to not knowing anything about what's being done? Ask Tommy about that, instead of casting doubt and rumor about him and his work in an effort to keep others from using his services! Or maybe inspect one of the guitars he's worked on!

It's a shame that when some dislike one's right to have secrect, proprietary information, they attempt to trash the reputation of the person, and destroy his credibility as a craftsman, or at least deter others from using his services...even in the face of satisfied customer testimony!

[b0b]

Like I said, the "placebo effect".

Curt, you are wrong. Tommy Young is a good steel guitar mechanic who knows his craft. Calling his work a "placebo effect" and "voodoo" is the same as saying that he simply takes delivery of a guitar and then returns it without doing anything to it. You know that's not true.

Making false statements about another member is a violation of Forum Rules. In this case, we're talking about libel and a person's livelihood. I take such things very seriously. If you do it again, you'll lose your membership.

[Steve English]

I'll bet my bottom dollar I'm not the only one that muttered "Thank you b0b!!" to myself.........

Thank you b0b!

[Tommy Young]

I also want to thank BOB. He is just upset that I won't give my mod to him for free. As BOB and I have told you it is different on different Brands of Guitars sorry but fact. All brands of guitars need different things done that will correct their weakness so that it will deliver its utmost possible TONE thanks TOMMY

[Curt Langston]

Ask Tommy about that, instead of casting doubt and rumor about him and his work in an effort to keep others from using his services!

We have.

No clear answer was given!

All anybody wants is an answer.

What does the "mod" involve?

Will we get an answer?.................

[Bob Hoffnar]

Curt,
If you are actually interested in getting your guitar worked on just give Tommy a call.

Its the same sort of thing as sending a PP out for a rebuild. They usually come back sounding better because the rebuilder guy adjusts things that help resonance. They don't type forever on the internet either and all of them do things differently.

[Mike Wheeler]

Curt, you aren't going to get an answer!! If he tells you what he does, he'll loose his source of income. Why can't you just let this go?...or better yet, figure it out yourself, like he did.

If this was your livelihood that was at stake, I'm sure you'd be tight-lipped about it too, wouldn't you?

[Charlie McDonald]

Bob, you slay me.

[Gary Preston]

B0b I appreciate your reply on this . We could go on and on about what people do to get better performance on just about anything . But as it has already been stated you will not get an honest answer .
It seems to me that we all strive to do something to our guitars to make them sound better . Amps / pickups ,strings ,tone bars ,etc . I have heard guys talk about what they have done to get a better sound and some of them won't give you a hint ! Or they come up with a crazy story that you have to decide if your leg has been pulled or not ! '' All '' this doesn't bother me at all . If anyone isn't happy with their sound then take Tommy at his word and send it to him .Then see if you can hear any tone difference for yourself . I don't know what he charges but i'm sure from all that iv'e heard he surley will stand by his word ! Is there a customer guarantee with this mod ? Like guaranteed satisfaction or your money back ?
Please dont misunderstand me because if someone has the talent to make a great sounding guitar sound even better then go for it ! I know that when we spend our hard earned money on a new steel guitar we expect to get our money's worth and it shouldn't have to have anything done to it to make us happy . Now i'm asking this question ! Why does anyone sell a guitar for good money and then say if you want it to stay in tune pay me X amount of dollars more for that ? I hope i'm not off track here but just an honest question ! B0b please forgive me if this question is off cuff .

[Al Terhune]

Gary,

You're not really off track. But haven't you heard of someone buying a stock Chevy or Ford (brand new) and enhancing it to run more efficiently, whether that means go faster, louder, quieter, whatever -- to suit an individual's tastes? I have.

[Gary Preston]

Al I was one of those guys that you are talking about in my younger days . Been there & done that ! I Still change pickups every now and then myself .

[Tommy Young]

GENTLEMEN AND THIS IS FOR ALL OF YOU THAT DON'T KNOW ME MAYBE THIS WILL HELP YOU UNDERSTAND HOW I AM BETTER . IN 1970 I GRADUATED HIGH SCHOOL AND WENT TO DIESEL SCHOOL. THEN IN 1973 I GRADUATED MACHINIST SCHOOL. THEN IN 1975 I GRADUATED TOOL & DIE SHOP AND WENT TO WORK AS A MACHINIST.DID THAT FOR SEVERAL YEARS THEN WORKED AS A MILLWRIGHT AND WENT TO NIGHT SCHOOL FOR THE SAME. ALSO WENT TO WELDING CLASSES TO FURTHER MY KNOWLEDGE. THEN WORKED AS AN AUTOMOTIVE MACHINIST AND SHOP FOREMAN FOR A FEW YEARS THEN AS A MILLWRIGHT MECHANIC AND WENT TO SCHOOL FOR ELECTRICAL MAINTENANCE, THEN WORKED AS A MAINTENANCE MECHANIC THEN AS A MAINTENANCE SUPERVISOR FOR COLUMBUS McKENNON CORP. FOR 5 YEARS UNTIL MY BACK GAVE WAY FROM ARTHRITIS OF THE SPINE OR DEGENERATIVE DISK DISEASE.

SO FOR MICKEY THAT DOESN'T LIKE MY TYPING SKILLS NOPE NEVER WENT TO TYPING CLASSES I'VE HAD TO WORK MY WAY FROM START TO FINISH AND WAS DECLARED TOTALLY DISABLED SINCE 2002 AND I REFUSE TO GIVE UP AS LONG AS I POSSIBLY CAN AND NO I WILL NOT TELL ANYONE WHAT I DO AS I TRUTHFULLY CAN'T, BECAUSE EACH AND EVERY GUITAR IS DIFFERENT, SORRY CURT YOU CAN CRY ALL YOU WANT AND CALL ME NAMES BUT THAT WILL CERTAINLY NOT GET AN ANSWER FROM ME. THAT MY FRIEND TAKES FOOD OFF MY TABLE.

THEY ARE GOING TO OPERATE ON MY BACK WITHIN THE NEXT WEEK OR SO FOR THE 7TH TIME HOPE AND I PRAY NONE OF YOU NEVER GET THIS DESEASE. NOW MORE ABOUT ME AND MY SCHOOLING. AS A TECH I HAVE WORKED ON AND BUILT ONE GUITAR FOR MYSELF AND WORKED ON MANY OTHERS TOO FROM 1985 UNTIL THE PRESENT THANKS FOR ALL THAT HAS RESPONDED TO THIS THREAD. SORRY FOR THE LENGTHY REPLY I JUST THOUGHT THAT ANYONE THAT WAS INTERESTED IN SENDING A GUITAR ANY DISTANCE SHOULD KNOW SOMETHING ABOUT THE PERSONS ABILITIES AS A MECHANIC OR TECHNICIAN WHICHEVER YOU PREFER THANKS FOR YOUR TIME AND MAY ""GOD""BLESS EACH OF YOU

TOMMY

[James Harrison]

Wow, James. Tommy has your number. You have not been playing pedal steel long at all. Very good, Tommy.

Al, Which number does he have? It did not take me a long time of playing steel to know what steel guitar tones I like. I knew which steel sound I liked before I bought my first pedal steel, but it was too expensive so I bought a inexpensive model to learn on. If I get good enough playing steel I will buy that brand and model that I liked the tone. When I get that steel I sure don't want anyone to change the tone as if I didn't like the sound I would not have bought it. How long did it take you to know which guitar sound you liked or did you have to have someone to tell you which you liked?
James

[J PARKER]

I will certainly have to say thank you Bob for stepping in and i totally agree with Dale Stacy. It worked well for me and other also that i know. Jim

[Greg Cutshaw]

I think stirring up the pot like this is good! I have no opinion one way or the other but here are some stats for how many downloads of Tommy's before and after sound clips have been downloaded. Note that this is only the complete number of downloads and not exactly the number who listened. I can't track individual users and since some people might have downloaded or played a sample more that once, the number of actual users may be less than indicated below. Of course it's likely that some people downloaded one sample and shared it with many others as well.


[tab]
After Before
April 950 957
May 430 401
June 11 6
[/tab]

For those who have not listened to the sound samples yet here they are:

Before Mod Sound Sample!

After Mod Sound Sample!

The above samples are 192kbps .wma files. They sound identical to the original .cda files that Tommy sent me, to my ears. I can upload them in .wma lossless (mathematically perfect conversion with no digital bits dropped) but the files are huge and again... no difference in sound. I have played these on my souped up car system and on my high end sound system as well as my computer dolby system and they they sound about the same on all systems.

Greg

[Jim Sliff]

I've laid out on this thread, but would like to comment on a couple of things.

I respect Tommy's unwillingness to divulge exactly what the "secrets" are he uses to improve a guitar.

However, I think that somehow a certain level of fairly clear information could be presened without giving out the "secrets". If it involves things like specific adjustements at particular torque settings, or using feeler gages to set clearances, or particular lube techniques, ALL of those can be disclosed without giving enough EXACT information to "give away the farm".

I'm jumping in because I've seen this stuff on guitar forums for years. It creates a load of ill will. One side says "it's a load of smoke"; the other says "it's great, leave him alone".

But reactions like this:

Sorry that this is such a delimma for some of you to worry about what you are to lazy or to cheap to find out about for yourself it has taken me several years to accomplish

Really sway things to the negative....and "too cheap to find out for yourself" implies there are parts involved.

Look - I can take apart a new American Tele, put it back together tweaking things along the way, and it'll play like butter and sound like a different guitar. I've been paid well in the past to do it ( and have retired from the work for lack of time). If I told you the process, you could NOT get the same results - because as Tommy relates, it takes experience (I'm not sure all that machining experience has much to do with making an instrument "sing", but that's just an opinion).

So I really do not believe some disclosure...even a LOT of disclosure...is going to take away from Tommy's income. The guys who will try to do it themselves were NEVER going to send him a guitar anyway! His customers are and will be those that trust in his abilities and reputation.

I well understand the physical points Tommy mentioned, also being a DDD and surgery patient. And that CAN color one's vision and attitude, I think, in some cases.

But to reiterate - As one who has long worked on and improved instruments, I think a pretty clear disclosure could be put together that would not hurt Tommy personally (via reputation) or income wise (through loss of customers).

The insistent and somehat acerbic refusal every time this comes up just seems to turn more people off, and I honestly believe the LACK of information loses more business than any disclosure would.

Tommy, good luck with the surgery - you have my sincere sympathy and prayers...I'm staring at another myself.

I really hope this can get worked out to everyone's satisfaction. There is NO doubt in my mind solid, quality work is being done. Letting folks know the *basis* of it won't hurt a bit, and will be good marketing IMO.

Jim

[Charlie McDonald]

It seems this thread is suffering from inductive reasoning.
I use this example respectfully, as Jim is trying to uncover a mystery:

If it involves things like specific adjustements at particular torque settings, or using feeler gages to set clearances, or particular lube techniques, [then] ALL of those can be disclosed without giving enough EXACT information to "give away the farm".

The second assumption is predicated by the first [If...], demonstrating a conclusion that is not supported by a fact.

The fact seems to me to be that Tommy gets a guitar and asseses what it needs for the tone to be improved. That's not known beforehand, so there may not be one panacea; it may be a 'bag of tricks' at his disposal, gleaned from his years of experience. To know what is to be done, we would have to know the specific guitar, as I doubt the mod is a 'one-size-fits-all' solution. A subjective matter like tone may require intuition, lacking a single solution.

A gal I sang with took her guitar to a mechanic to have the action improved. Witnessing satisfactory results, she asked what was done. "I prayed over it." Was he hiding something, or giving the only answer knew to reveal? I don't know, as the result is predicated on an assumption that I (speaking agnostically) can't verify or disprove [in that case, the efficacy of prayer] when stated as a matter of belief. It requires a leap of faith, so to speak. I have no interest in verifying or disproving the method when the results work.

If the results don't work, then the method could be called into question. But this topic is predicated by a testimonial that Tommy's Mod does work, and I've seen no other firsthand testimony that it does not. For empirical discussion, I don't see how we can go beyond that, no if's, and's, or buts.

[Curt Langston]

SORRY CURT YOU CAN CRY ALL YOU WANT AND CALL ME NAMES BUT THAT WILL CERTAINLY NOT GET AN ANSWER FROM ME.

No Tommy, I did not call you any names.

I just thought that you should be willing to answer some simple questions pertaining to your mod.

If you do not want to though, that is alright with me.

I however, will not be shipping a guitar to an unseen person who will not even tell me what it is he is going to do with my guitar.

It is just not a good business practice for me.

Just my 2 cents....................

[Tommy Young]

Gentlemen what i do is what I've been taught to do all my life and that IS to """disassemble each component that has an effect on sustain and tone on the guitar and hand fit each of these to the very utmost closest tolerance that can be found to where there isn't any stress on anything by whatever means necessary to accomplish the job torque all screws back together and play it and redo until it responds to what I am searching for in tone there is many ways to assembling them together thanks TOMMY hope this HELPS and this is not VOODOO, placebo effect, nor so call mod nor snake oil treatment that i give the guitar a dose of, and to others I want to apologize for not taking secretary classes that take offense to bad grammar an typing classes as well

PS: This is all you will get use it to the best of your mechanical abilities TOMMY

[Jim Sliff]

The second assumption is predicated by the first [If...], demonstrating a conclusion that is not supported by a fact.

Charlie, I disagree, and you may remove your "then" from my statement as it's redundant.

The specific examples I gave of techniques used to adjust instruments CAN be presented as general techniques without giving specific tolerances. That gives the reader at least an idea of what methodology is employed without being so specific as to providing a "manual" for do-it-yourselfers who don't want to pay for the work.

As one who has done the same type of work on six-strings for many years, I can state from a qualified position that my statement is fact, not assumption. The examples given are also not assumptions - they are "examples" of typical methodology. I'm not assuming anything - I'm giving a set of examples of specific methods that can be disclosed without fear of giving the reader a free pass.

Neither am I assuming Tommy uses those methods - the statement is made that "IF" he uses those methods, positive results can be gained. "IF" he doesn't, no conclusion can be made, nullifying the "faulty inductive reasoning" argument (had I stated Tommy used those methods specifically, or that methods not given provide the same results, the logic would certainly be faulty).

It's when you make assumptions that inductive reasoning collapses. Don't assume I don't know what I'm talking about.

Curt - you may not have "called Tommy Names", but the throwing in the term "Snake Oil", and statements like (paraphrased) "if manufacturers thought there were needs for his mods they would recommend them" are personal attacks that have less of a foundation than the reported mods, which have some decent reviews to back them up. Your statement regarding manufacturers has no basis in fact - how, sir, do you know what every manufacturer would or would not recommend? Have you spoken to them or is there a form of clairvoyance involved?

While you're at it, post a few reviews of your Snake Oil - I'd love to read user's comments.