Vocalists from hell!

John Rosett · Post by **John Rosett** » 29 Dec 2004 9:04 pm

get her a couple of gigs with a banjo player. that should change her perspective.
john

Bob Watson · Post by **Bob Watson** » 30 Dec 2004 2:07 am

Does she sing using JI or ET?

Tony Prior · Post by **Tony Prior** » 30 Dec 2004 2:30 am

I suppose she deserves the respect of her talents..natural or otherwise..but she does not deserve to work with musicians who in her mind are a few notches below perfect who actually know how to play Steel !

If she is producing a record of her singing thats one thing..if she is putting together a Country band which is supposed to go out and actually play a gig now and then she needs an elevator repairman..soon...

What would ever possess a musician to work in a band where Atilla the Hun tells you exactly what to play in every song ? I'm not talkin' studio /recording here..

I can safely state that the very few times I was called to work with a brilliant perfect pitch whatever musician who was putting a perfect gig together it only took them a few minutes to realize that I was the wrong player for this venue.

So for me it was ..as the song so clearly states..

" Now it's Back..to the Barrooms again"...

t[This message was edited by Tony Prior on 30 December 2004 at 02:37 AM.]

Tony Prior · Post by **Tony Prior** » 30 Dec 2004 3:11 am

?[This message was edited by Tony Prior on 30 December 2004 at 03:11 AM.]

James Morehead · Post by **James Morehead** » 30 Dec 2004 4:21 am

If she could find like minded perfect musicians for her band, they would probably all kill each other off, anyways.

Andy Greatrix · Post by **Andy Greatrix** » 30 Dec 2004 6:39 am

A few more thoughts-
It also sounds like the new knowledge syndrome. That's when you feel like you've reached a new musical plateau and want to put everything you've learned in every song.
A three chord song is beneath her. The complexity of simplicity is what Lloyd Green, John Hughey, etc. understand. If she learns some musical manners, her music and the atmosphere around her will probably improve. It's hard to play with feeling when someone makes you feel like crap.

Farris Currie · Post by **Farris Currie** » 30 Dec 2004 6:57 am

Thank the GOOD LORD,i never played for a living,those kind,hey i love to slide some extra bad notes in on them while they are singing!!as long as it's not being recorded,it's your word against theirs.wasn't me,it was you!!haha.i laughed one time story was told,a top star had been picking on Marty Robins,and the guy was on stage at the opra,said all of a sudden,bad steel playing,the star looked around,and Marty was on steel!!yep more than one way to get even!!! farris

Bill Llewellyn · Post by **Bill Llewellyn** » 30 Dec 2004 9:00 am

Also, just because there is a possiblity of a chord every quarter note, doesn't mean you have to do it.

I've always felt that way about the hymn "A Mighty Fortress Is Our God". Nearly constant chord changes! Since I prefer to memorize charts rather than reading them, that hymn took quite a while for me to get right.

Jim Phelps · Post by **Jim Phelps** » 30 Dec 2004 11:35 am

I agree with Bob Hoffnar's point about working with talented musicians who aren't necessarily nice, so I should clarify my position.

As Bob said, I have also played with some excellent musicians who were not what one would call nice and friendly, and it was a great and worthwhile experience and I would do it again. But, in my mind there's being all-business, and then there's being just a plain old a**hole. I suppose that everyone has their own definition of what constitutes crossing the line.

I played guitar with a band for a short time in Las Vegas in the mid-'80's which was a casino-lounge top-40 pop band. The bandleader was well-known as being a complete jerk although I hadn't yet heard, I found out later. One rehearsal (unpaid), he kept us at it for 8 straight hours and drove us like slaves. At about the 6th or 7th hour I was getting pretty fed-up with him, his attitude and this marathon rehearsal. If anyone so much as made a single wrong note and he heard it, he stopped the song and derided the player, making comments such as the player'd "better do some more practicing when you're home". This was not for a big Las Vegas show or recording date, it was a lounge band!

At some point I made a clunker and he stopped the band and got on me for it. I'd had enough and told him "I made the mistake NOT because I don't know the song, or need to practice more, but because my butt is killing me after sitting on it for 7 hours or so, I've never been asked to rehearse for so long by anyone, I'm fed up with this, this is crap, we are all wasting our time at this point and all the practice at home in the world would not change anything."

Things got pretty darn ugly there for a while. He asked me if I wanted to leave the band, I said no, I just wanted him to be reasonable and not to worry, I was "saving the good stuff for the stage".

We got that settled and finally ended the rehearsal after about another hour or so.

This kind of attitude pretty much ruins my enthusiasm for playing music whether the guy's a genius or a half-a**ed lounge-lizard, as this jerk singer Vincent was and probably still is if he's still living.

Despite the horrible rehearsal and near fight, things went fine onstage.

I stayed and put up with it for two reasons: I needed the money, and it was actually a pretty good band. The bass player was the best bass-player I'd ever worked with, he'd played shows with all the pop stars of the time, he named Elvin Bishop, Helen Reddy and others I don't remember.

I asked him how was it working for those kind of stars. He said, "same as working for no-names, except you have to put up with more s**t" (with the stars). That's probably true of many of them.

On the other hand, I'd played steel for package shows in the late '70's with Lori Morgan, Jeannie C. Riley & others, some shows with Wynn Stewart, Shoji Tabuchi even let me sit-in on his show (before he had his theater in Branson). All these people were as nice as you could ask, never once complained or made any pointed remarks and in fact were very complimentary to the musicians.

I've also played with those fresh-out-of-college music majors who want to put everything they've learned into every song. I find them annoying but if they're not abusive I can stand it.

If someone is a musical genius and open my eyes to all kinds of great new knowledge, I don't mind him/her telling me what to play. Even then, if along with genius advice came insults and belittling, a person can and should only take that so long. You have to decide for yourself how much you should put up with.

[This message was edited by Jim Phelps on 30 December 2004 at 11:48 AM.]

Chuck Cusimano · Post by **Chuck Cusimano** » 30 Dec 2004 12:08 pm

I was working with a house band back in 1973, (in Texas) and had to back up a Female singer who had a huge hit. (this was for one show) It had a wierd guitar kickoff. (Sounded more like a mistake that they decided to leave on the record) I had pure hell to try to duplicate it, but I wasted most of a half hour trying. She was addament (sp.?) that it was "JUST LIKE THE RECORD". #1 - It was recorded with an accoustic, (flat top) and I was playing a Telecaster. (She wanted to know if I turned some knobs, I could make it sound like the record.) #2 - The timing was not in meter, and that was where I was having problems.
She could have just kicked it off cold, and the audience would have enjoyed it just as much.
After she complained enough about every thing some Female Singers can come up with, one by one the band members shut off their amps, put down the drum sticks, and just walked out and left her standing there with her mouth wide open. That night we backed her up perfectly, with big smiles, and I actually got the kick off "JUST LIKE THE RECORD", and we each vowed to never work with her again. I heard later that she complimented the band, but I never heard it from her. I think it was the ONLY hit she ever had.

Jim Phelps · Post by **Jim Phelps** » 30 Dec 2004 12:28 pm

I think it was the ONLY hit she ever had.

Well at least there's SOME justice!

Les Anderson · Post by **Les Anderson** » 30 Dec 2004 12:46 pm

Re; Bob Hoffnar, Jim Phelps. I along with almost every musician I have ever worked with will agree with your ideologies of not minding being pushed hard if not to the limits to learn more. Musicians are no different than an athlete who is constantly striving to achieve the next level of proficiency.

This may not be the forum to mention this in; however, I am a long time professional chromatic harmonica player and if it not had been for those better than I pushing me to the limit, it is doubtful that I could or would have reached the level that I am at: re; the myth of not being able to bend notes on a chromatic as can be done on a blues harp.

In 1974 I met and played with the legendary Bob Hesch who played blues and jazz chromatic harmonica. He could bend notes on his chromatics to any point and variation he wanted. When he got a hold of me, he drove me to the point of almost punching him out as he steadfastly refused to accept my "lame and weake kneed excuse" that I just can’t do it. Two weeks later and with at least 100 hours of constant and hateful depressing practice, I finally learned to do the seemingly impossible.

The point of the matter however is the way the pushing to the limit is done. No one likes to be insulted, degraded and humiliated while trying to learn or attempting something that is yet beyond his skill level.

Yes the lady mentioned in this thread was a gifted classical guitarist without question and tried constantly to push others to her level. Her methods however were more discouraging and disparaging than helpful or educational. Some of the notation and chord runs that she was after would have been very difficult for even the most talented guitarist and, possibly impossible for a steel guitar’s range without constant note and chord transposing.

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(I am not right all of the time but I sure like to think I am!)

[This message was edited by Les Anderson on 30 December 2004 at 12:47 PM.]

Jim Phelps · Post by **Jim Phelps** » 30 Dec 2004 12:49 pm

Well-said, Les. Pushing for improvement is one thing, and the method involved is everything. Insulting, discouraging and belittling and picking about stupid things is quite another thing. That's exactly what I thought I was saying...[This message was edited by Jim Phelps on 30 December 2004 at 01:31 PM.]

Bob Hoffnar · Post by **Bob Hoffnar** » 30 Dec 2004 1:38 pm

Les,
I know what you are saying. If the money is light and the band leader too crazy I just mutter something about how they must have graduated with honours from dick school and pack up.
I could top your story about a chick singer from hell. Whenever I bump into anybody that has ever worked with her its like we are brothers that survived D-day together.
Absolute psycotic nightmare !

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Bob
intonation help

Joey Ace · Post by **Joey Ace** » 30 Dec 2004 1:45 pm

"I asked him how was it working for those kind of stars. He said, "same as working for no-names, except you have to put up with more s**t" (with the stars)."

Time to revisit the Paul Anka band meeting.

CAUTION: PROFANITY

Jim Phelps · Post by **Jim Phelps** » 30 Dec 2004 2:06 pm

WOW. Anyone want to play for Paul Anka? I'm sure there is quite a turnover in his band...

I'd heard rumors like this about Anka, I think from the bass player I mentioned above, but I hadn't heard this before. Great somebody recorded the meeting, otherwise people just wouldn't believe it.

This is the kind of thing that makes me glad I said "screw the music biz and the 'stars'" and moved down here!
[This message was edited by Jim Phelps on 30 December 2004 at 02:25 PM.]

Joey Ace · Post by **Joey Ace** » 30 Dec 2004 3:41 pm

Here's some of the same from Buddy Rich.

I'll try to sneak a recorder into one of b0b's band meetings.

Scott Appleton · Post by **Scott Appleton** » 30 Dec 2004 4:03 pm

The ones that really got to me were somebody's sister in law or distant cousin as if that would give them the " power " of musical superiority.
Woman are extra difficult when they want it all because, at least, in my experiences they were beutifull and talented. Then it becomes "that Nightmare" we are discussing here.

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Mullen S12 Almost Mooney
71 Tele, Regal 45
Sho Bud S10 NP
Line 6 Flextone 3 + JBL D130, Nash 112

Stephen Gambrell · Post by **Stephen Gambrell** » 30 Dec 2004 4:42 pm

Almost makes me long for the old days, when we just argued about dope.

Roy Ayres · Post by **Roy Ayres** » 30 Dec 2004 5:53 pm

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR>
The complexity of simplicity is what Lloyd Green, John Hughey, etc. understand.
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Thanks, Andy. I love that statement!

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Visit my Web Site at RoysFootprints.com
Browse my Photo Album and be sure to sign my Guest Book.

Eric West · Post by **Eric West** » 31 Dec 2004 2:48 am

The Anka one was probably a tie with Buddy Rich.

The best blow ups I remember were in band meetings.

One was preceded by the Bandleader saying: "I want to get everything out in the open, and I want you all to know that nothing you can say, or ask me about will make me mad." Yeah Well...

The other was when the bandleader finally showed up sober one night and demanded input into what was wrong with the band.

The first one is still in the Nevada State Prison.

The second one is still in one of his own making.

And Me?

No matter what my answers would have been, it would have worked out the same.

The Buddy Rich one was totally priceless.

He was probably as right as rain. The band's probably lucky he didn't shoot them...

Seriously though. I've been in a couple PITA "Cover Bands" and unless pushed to a point, "learning the right chords" never hurts anyone. The intros and rides I learned working for them seem stuck for good.

Problem is nobody wants to hear "Seven Year Ache" or "You Can't Take the Texas out of me", let alone "Baby's got her Blue Jeans on". (I played the Cowbell until the steel fill on the chorus...)

Oh well.

EJL

Klaus Caprani · Post by **Klaus Caprani** » 31 Dec 2004 4:28 am

I think we've all been in the situation.

It doesn't seem to be an especially gender-specific problem, though most of those troublemakers that I encountered were actually women. There's a lot of "mistaken authority" syndrome in it (I.E. the persons status as a soloist makes them think that they're masters of any other instrument in the bandsetting as well), and then ofcourse the music-theoretics who spend more time sporting their "perfect ear" than to actually create music.

What's common for those specimens that I've encountered is, that in spite of their obvious capabilities none of them actually ever got very far. Either because they're nuisances to work with, or because their "perfect ears" deprived them of any joy of real music.

Happy Newyear

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Klaus Caprani

MCI RangeXpander S-10 3x4
www.klauscaprani.com

[This message was edited by Klaus Caprani on 31 December 2004 at 04:30 AM.][This message was edited by Klaus Caprani on 31 December 2004 at 04:32 AM.][This message was edited by Klaus Caprani on 31 December 2004 at 07:39 AM.]

Charles French · Post by **Charles French** » 31 Dec 2004 6:31 am

Just be glad you're not her lover. Talk about a blow to your masculinity!

Klaus Caprani · Post by **Klaus Caprani** » 31 Dec 2004 7:28 am

Just be glad you're not her lover. Talk about a blow to your masculinity!

Try to put this the other way around. She might live in a relationship being subdued in the bedroom. Sorry for the off topic content

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Klaus Caprani

MCI RangeXpander S-10 3x4
www.klauscaprani.com

Farris Currie · Post by **Farris Currie** » 31 Dec 2004 7:45 am

HA HA,seen some of these before,they rule the roost,there goes husband with tail between his legs, yes dear!!!!probaly should bow down when he says yes dear!!!