Willie Nelson on USA Network - Ouch

Jason Stillwell · Post by **Jason Stillwell** » 4 Jun 2004 5:54 am

I didn't see the wreck, but I've seen enough of his other train wrecks to know what one looks like and sounds like. I think what bothers me so much about ole Willie's live performances is not so much his timing, it's his lack of a melody. He sings the same cotton-picking "tune" to each and every song these days. (In the key of "C", I think the notes, from high to low, would be G-G-G-G-C.) I was listening to 95.3 out of Dallas, and they played a version of "Night Life" by him and Eric Clapton that was practically unrecognizable. And just when I thought his version of Whiskey River couldn't get any farther from actually containing a melody, along comes the 21st Century Willie Nelson to prove this kid wrong. Trying to listen to Willie live actually makes me exhausted. Talented? Sure. Misused? I think so, IMHO.

Roger Rettig · Post by **Roger Rettig** » 4 Jun 2004 7:13 am

Willie's such a colourful character that I suppose he's 'watchable' in some people's eyes. I've always preferred him when he's just talking.

I know I shouldn't be concerned with how the 'music world' perceives country music, but Willie, with the high-profile he enjoys, makes it very difficult to make a case to a serious listener that he should embrace the genre - he'll see that Nelson is a major figure, and judge the music accordingly!

I recently had a jazz bass-player friend from London come and stay with me. We talked about music as we used to do so often, and I played him Joe Nichols' CD - he loved it, saying, 'I didn't realise how good this stuff was!', and went and bought it next day! He went back home pondering the enormous gulf between Nichols and an 'established icon' like Willie. Now Joe Nichols CD sits on Andy's shelf next to his Bill Evans and Miles Davis records.....

I now wish he'd still been in Naples when Vince Gill played last night - he'd have liked that, too!

I'm not making my point very clearly here, but I suppose I feel that it's only in country music that such an oddity can win such acclaim.

I was doing a pub-gig in London in the late '80s with Albert Lee when Willie and some of his band came in (they were in town for the Wembley Festival). We invited them onstage, which delighted pub's manager AND the crowd, but we couldn't believe how poor a couple of his players were (no names!).

I guess I'm missing the point - he's an entertainer, and he communicates something to people in a way that I couldn't begin to do, and I suppose I should erase all this and get to practising.....

Ooops! Pressed the wrong button!

RR

Terry Edwards · Post by **Terry Edwards** » 4 Jun 2004 4:44 pm

OK, you guys want Willie to be an "outlaw" and tell the Nashville producers where to stick that canned slick overproduced sound they try to pawn as country music. And when Willie brings his outlaw buddies on stage for some fun, you flame him!

I loved every minute of it! Everybody on that stage has stuck to there guns and fought the suits in Nashville and Los Angeles. Everyone on that stage was an original and a true artist. That's good enough for me.

And that was some of the best trainwrecks I ever heard!

My favorite was Ricki Lee and Willie and that upright bass playing some tasty licks! That was awesome!

t

Roger Rettig · Post by **Roger Rettig** » 4 Jun 2004 5:05 pm

Personally, Terry, I don't care what he does. I find that 'outlaw' nonsense rather pretentious, too, unless it's a code-word for ragged playing and questionable tuning. I rather fancy it's a position they all take once they can't get a record deal!

I'm not 'flaming' him, and I wish him no ill-will - I just don't think he's very good.

RR

Auset Sarno · Post by **Auset Sarno** » 4 Jun 2004 5:55 pm

Ok... how about the first cut on Side B of "Jimmy Day & the Texas Outlaw Jam Band" pre-release edition cassette, called "Have I Told You Lately That I Love You".

Some of the sweetest playin'. Jimmy Day's touch with Willie taking a truly beautiful guitar solo. He's raw in so many aspects and genius in others.

Auset

Chris Walke · Post by **Chris Walke** » 5 Jun 2004 6:45 am

This'll give ya shivers:

Barbershop Quartet -
Tom Petty
Bob Dylan
Willie Nelson
the late, great Johnny Cash

...Run, Forrest, run!!

Chris Forbes · Post by **Chris Forbes** » 5 Jun 2004 9:20 am

Chris, I always had a sneaking suspicion that Tom Petty and Stevie Nicks were Bob Dylan's illegitimate children.

Roger Rettig · Post by **Roger Rettig** » 5 Jun 2004 9:58 am

Nice one, Chris! Now, how about your 'Barbershop quartet' doing a cover album of 'Take Six' material?

Chris Walke · Post by **Chris Walke** » 5 Jun 2004 11:09 am

Or the Manhattan Transfer's sets. yowch.

I think a glimpse of horror of these combined voices is found in the Travelling Wilburys. Don't get me wrong - I'm all about great artists collaborating - but combining the voices of Jeff Lynne, Orbison, Petty, Dylan, and George Harrison is just dangerous. I bet they had a blast at those sessions, tho'. As Petty named his album, "Damn the Torpedoes!"

Stevie Nicks - I guess I can hear the family resemblence. But Petty as Dylan's child is a given, it seems.

I can never rip on these artists for long, however. The body of work they've created, individually, is impressive.

Drew Howard · Post by **Drew Howard** » 5 Jun 2004 4:06 pm

I saw the show and thought was entertaining and about what you'd expect. Lots of old timers and young stuff for the young viewers. Hag sounded the best vocal wise. Gotta remember Willie has bad arthritis in his hands and is 70+. Speaking of which, Jerry Lee Lewis is way up there too and sounds like it. Wonder why he had that Fender amp jammed up against his piano bench. Keith looks ridiculous with the baby dreads, looked like fishing lures in his hair! He sounded good though.

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Drew's Website

Richard Sinkler · Post by **Richard Sinkler** » 5 Jun 2004 10:27 pm

Come on Drew. Willie is playing the same crap he played 30 years ago. His lead playing is very repetitive. All he does is hammer on that piece of crap guitar (out of time with the song, I might add) with the nerve racking nylon strings using the same 20 licks that he knows. Leave the nylon string guitars to the classical masters that actually know how to play them. This show was an ego trip show so that the guests could say how great Willie is (bulls#it in my eyes).

Let's see a show like this dedicated to a true great like Hag.

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Bob Hickish · Post by **Bob Hickish** » 6 Jun 2004 6:06 am

I saw Willy on TV in 1949 and I was woundering if he would make it ! I guess he didn't - that was 50 some years ago - Hello wall's how you feel'n today :[ ;[

John P. Phillips · Post by **John P. Phillips** » 6 Jun 2004 10:11 pm

I'll bet ole willie just cries all the way to the bank. lol

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JUST 'CAUSE I STEEL, DON'T MAKE ME A THIEF www.geocities.com/squire592001/jason.html

Bill Carpenter · Post by **Bill Carpenter** » 11 Jun 2004 2:00 pm

Willie was great but I have never seen or heard so many, so called professionals sound so horrible. Ben Harper was alright, but most od the rest should bve put out of their misery.

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Steelin' - The most fun a fella' can have, legally!!

Drew Howard · Post by **Drew Howard** » 12 Jun 2004 11:04 am

Willie is playing the same crap he played 30 years ago.

Matter of opinion. Willie has style. When he plays you know it's him. None of these old-timers are in their prime anymore. I think you guys have unrealistic expectations. Willie is not about pyrotechnics. Let's see how hot you are at 70 :>)

Also, live music on TV can have the most unforgiving of audio mixes.

I agree the Hag would kill if he had his own tribute.

cheers,
Drew

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Drew's Website

Joe Casey · Post by **Joe Casey** » 13 Jun 2004 4:54 am

70 years old and still doing what he loves to do.Play music with his friends..How many of us are that lucky?

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Erv Niehaus · Post by **Erv Niehaus** » 13 Jun 2004 5:48 am

I think if Willie would lay off the dope, he might do better on stage. I think he is a shadow of his former self!
Erv

Bob Wood · Post by **Bob Wood** » 13 Jun 2004 11:11 am

Boy! Reading all the different opinions on Willie...., just reinforces my belief that we truly do live in a country where we can all have differing opinions. As far as Willie waking up to find a gun in his face....,

I can't see that happening! Willie's body-guard is a good friend of mine, and if that would've happened, Willie would've been looking for another drummer that didn't have such a beat-up face the next day!

Bob

Paul King · Post by **Paul King** » 14 Jun 2004 4:35 am

While I have never been a big Willie Nelson fan, I do admire him for being able to bring artists in all music fields to help our farmers with Farm Aid. I personally never cared for his appearance and the way he dresses but he has a special something that draws many fans to him. I have always wondered why he did not buy another guitar, but I guess the one he plays with the hole in it has much history. He certainly has made a lot of money playing and singing, something the majority of us have not been able to do. Like him or not he is still performing at 70 years of age and appears to be very strong. I saw him recently on an old show and he was using Jimmy Day for the steel player. At least he knows a great steel player when he hears one. He definitely has a unique style of playing and singing. He is about the only singer I have saw who could break time vocally and get by with it. Last but not least, he has written some tremendous hit songs.

Graham Lathrop · Post by **Graham Lathrop** » 14 Jun 2004 7:23 am

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[This message was edited by Graham Lathrop on 11 June 2006 at 09:58 AM.]

Roger Rettig · Post by **Roger Rettig** » 14 Jun 2004 8:53 am

Graham

You make some points and have thought your reply through before posting (unlike some).

For the record, Toby Keith and Kid Rock are, in my opinion, beneath contempt, and I don't take either of them seriously as musicians or social commentators.

I'm with you on the Joe Walsh issue, but not Pat Metheny - he's a fine player in my view.

Dylan and Nelson? I have a problem concentrating on what might lie beneath the surface when music is poorly performed and doesn't meet even basic skill-levels. I'm impressed by the sheer hard work and application that produces the Buddy Emmons, Dave Grusin, Bill Evans, Oscar Peterson class of musician.

Maybe it's my loss, but I can't listen past an out-of-tune guitar and a poorly-phrased vocal. There are quite enough fully-qualified artistes to keep me inspired and fulfilled without my having to get past the shortcomings of Messrs. Nelson, Dylan, as well as the Keith Richards-type ineptitude that seems to find favour with some.

RR