BlueGrass Music (A Rant)

Damir Besic · Post by **Damir Besic** » 22 Nov 2003 4:32 pm

there is some serious misunderstanding going on here,are we talking about the same thing???...there is so much work with dynamics in bluegrass it`s not even funny,volume wise and also rhythm wise.It is very tricky music to play,with all the background vocals and instruments taking turns all the time.You can`t have a routine playing bluegrass, unlike in country music, where you`re expected to play excatly the same way and lenght all the time,with the bluegrass band you have to listen very carefuly what`s going on,there is a thing called "timing" wich is a few bars solo instrument actualy plays after the actual lead break and you have to know when and how to get back in the swing.Reason for that is for the whole band to get back together in the tempo after a fast pickin`.Very dynamic music to play and lets not make a mistake, very very complicated and demanding,of course,if you want to do it right,if not ,then ,well, you can play the whole nite and people will think that you played a one song all the time.Thats called a suck-grass band.

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David L. Donald · Post by **David L. Donald** » 22 Nov 2003 4:41 pm

I want to play bluegrass with John, Damir and Winnie!! These guys know what it's about.

Steve Stallings · Post by **Steve Stallings** » 22 Nov 2003 4:47 pm

Through my Martin guitar forum www.umgf.com
I've gotten to meet some very serious bluegrass pickers. These are some of the most amazing pickers I've ever heard.

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God Bless,
Steve Stallings

www.pedalsteeler.com

Dale Bessant · Post by **Dale Bessant** » 22 Nov 2003 4:54 pm

TWO WORDS:........

TONY RICE....

Kenny Davis · Post by **Kenny Davis** » 22 Nov 2003 5:38 pm

I bet Bill Monroe never uttered the word "genre"...

Chris Lasher · Post by **Chris Lasher** » 22 Nov 2003 5:52 pm

I can't call myself a bluegrass fan, because I don't know much about the bands and artists. The only things I know is that I love the New Grass Revival live CD I have, that I love the Sam Bush live CD I have, that I love the Alison Krauss & Union Station live CD I have, that I love Alison Krauss (wait, did I just say that?), and that I really, really wouldn't mind if I never again had to hear another 18-22 year old girl exclaim, "Chris Thile is soooooooooo hot!!!"

Also, what's wrong with just using a bluegrass sound in your music? I mean, I know it's not true bluegrass, but, does it have to be if you just like the way it sounds? A great example to me is "Shubbee's Doobie" by Béla Fleck & the Flecktones (with Sam Bush on mandolin). I guess someone else above called this "Acoustic String Music" or some such, but to my ignorant self, it just sounds like a song that has bluegrass leanings. All that matters to me is that I like it.

Terry Edwards · Post by **Terry Edwards** » 22 Nov 2003 6:15 pm

Think of "Faded Love" - the verses are quiet and the chorus goes full tilt.

b0b, bluegrassers play Faded Love too! At the proper tempo and with dynamics. Not all bluegrass songs are "fast and furious"!

If you ever get a chance, listen to the Seldom Scene's "Old Train" album. Linda Rondstat sings harmony with John Starling and John Duffey on a couple gospel songs. Best singing I have ever heard!!! Sll the songs on this album are great. Ricky Skaggs plays fiddle and Mike Auldridge on dobro. The dynamics are awesome!! Heck, I may just send you a copy of this!

Terry

David Mullis · Post by **David Mullis** » 22 Nov 2003 6:35 pm

The Seldom Scene Live at the Cellar Door ain't bad neither!

Winnie Winston · Post by **Winnie Winston** » 23 Nov 2003 1:06 am

Kenny said:

"I bet Bill Monroe never uttered the word 'genre'..."

Why should he? He WAS the word.
It's hard for those who have not played with him to understand, but he knew what he wanted, and told you-- generally not in words, but in looks. And eventually you learned how to do it right through some very subtle communication.
The few times I played with him were a real learning experience.
And little of it can be put into words.

JW

Tom Keller · Post by **Tom Keller** » 23 Nov 2003 1:55 am

Bluegrass like any other idiom requires a certain amount of emmersion that is if one is going to understand the sublities. Otherwise, the same critisisms could apply to all musics.... steel music even...example all those e9 slow tempo things sound the same....where's the dynamics.. etc..

Tom

Drew Howard · Post by **Drew Howard** » 23 Nov 2003 6:36 am

G,C,D? Check The Osbornes and other bands, half of their tunes are in B. Try singing those harmonies!

Bluegrass is very popular in MI, lots of jams and excellent pickers.

Drew

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www.newslinkassociates.com
www.drewhoward.com

Andy Alford · Post by **Andy Alford** » 23 Nov 2003 6:53 am

Bob

If country music had remained true to its roots like Bluegrass it would still be full of fiddles and steel guitars.

Damir Besic · Post by **Damir Besic** » 23 Nov 2003 9:17 am

hey David,thanks,yes lets put a band together and do some bluegrassing...

and oh my,do I hear a lots of great names here,yes,Tony Rice is tha MAN...the bluegrass albums with Skaggs,Douglas and JD Crowe were kick a$$,I`m telling you,dynamics..uhhh,planty of that and what a singin`.I can`t wait to get my new Red Fox Stelling ,it should be here sometimes next week,I was told it come out great ,real babe.I`ll post some pics as soon as it gets here.But you guys just keep those names coming,o man,Winnie,tell us more about the ole Bill,I heard he was pain to work for,that he wopuld have the whole band work on his ranch fixin` fence and stuff,I also heard he loved girls and that from none else but McCormick himself,I love this topic,it takes me back to Europe where I used to play a lot of country music and bluegrass,Merle and George,Flat and Scruggs and as soon as I come to Nashville I end up playing Sweet Home Alabama,TCB and the rest of the crap,I swear to God I would play more country music if I had stayed in europe and play in Austria,Germany and Italy.Miss those days...

pickin` with Vassar and Bob Saxton,day I`ll never forget

this is how we used to do it back at home in Zagreb,planty of steel and fiddle,never needed drums or electric guitars,what a days...

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[This message was edited by Damir Besic on 23 November 2003 at 09:25 AM.][This message was edited by b0b on 23 November 2003 at 05:25 PM.]

Wayne Carver · Post by **Wayne Carver** » 23 Nov 2003 10:53 am

I love the contemorary variations like the "Teluride Sessions" etc. If you prefer diversity you might like "Bad Livers", "Tarbox Ramblers", "Johnny Staats Project", "The Be Good Tanyas", and "Freakwater".
I also like the "High Lonesome" sound of almost anyone. The simple sounds of early bluegrass is what draws people to it. I like to listen to "Hazel Dickens", "Wilma Lee & Stoney Cooper", "Claire Lynch" and "Goose Creek Symphony Orchestra".

Bobby Lee · Post by **Bobby Lee** » 23 Nov 2003 5:30 pm

If country music had remained true to its roots like Bluegrass it would still be full of fiddles and steel guitars.

And we wouldn't have pedals!

Franklin · Post by **Franklin** » 24 Nov 2003 8:30 am

An interesting sidenote is that trumpets were recorded before steel guitars in Country.

HHhhmmm? Ever hear anyone say they miss the sound of that good ole country trumpet?

Paul

David Doggett · Post by **David Doggett** » 24 Nov 2003 11:07 am

There are a lot of funny ideas out there about bluegrass. It was derived by Bill Monroe from Southern Appalachian folk, blues, and country music. But it is not a pure form of folk music, as some people seem to think. Bill Monroe invented the singing style and mandolin stye, and Earl Scruggs invented bluegrass style banjo. The whole sound and the way the instruments and voices interact was developed around radio, recording studio, and PA system microphones - so much for the folk and pure acoustic roots. Monroe once travelled with a steel guitar and a baseball team. For whatever reasons he refined it down to the basic acoustic instruments. I once asked him why he never used a Dobro player, and basically it came down to the fact that in the lean years he couldn't afford one. Fortunately Josh Graves with his banjo background established bluegrass style Dobro with Flatt and Scruggs.

The high close harmony goes back to the Scotch-Irish traditions, twin fiddles and the Irish tenor. To sing good bluegrass tenor you have to be born able to sing it effortlessly in the keys that fit the instruments. Many people not so born strain to do it and sound like crap, which makes things worse. The sound is so tied to the ethnic perculiarities of the Southern mountains that even at its best you almost have to be born there to appreciate it. Many others never acquire the taste, therefore, as with blues, many people gravitate to the instrumental aspects and tend to over intellectualize it.

I love it, but not all the time.

John Steele (deceased) · Post by **John Steele (deceased)** » 24 Nov 2003 1:12 pm

And, Bill Monroe's original band included an accordion. (!) Seems like a strange inclusion these days. So, it took a while to gel into a strict format too.
In fact, the only thing I miss more than that good ole country trumpet, is that smokin' bluegrass accordion !
-John

David L. Donald · Post by **David L. Donald** » 24 Nov 2003 4:14 pm

Paul, is quite right. Jimmy Rogers did several cuts with Louis Armstrong as a sideman with other New Orleans players of note.

The Singing Brakeman sho was country,
and Satchmo was pretty rootsy too.

The roots of country and jazz are the same ; acoustic blues and minstralsy.
So it is not illogical that early players also got together cross genres, before the genres got too locked into one shtick.

I love the Bad Livers, what a crew they must be to tour with LOL.
"6 feet Down and I can't turn around"

I have played some bluegrass and fiddle music with diatonic accorians, and they are all over Irish trad music.

Damir nice pics. Do you know a piano player named Bojan Zulfkarpasic from the old country? He's a friend and a jazz player, with balkan melodies in the bebop. Very cool.[This message was edited by David L. Donald on 24 November 2003 at 04:28 PM.]

Andy Volk · Post by **Andy Volk** » 24 Nov 2003 4:49 pm

http://www.prairiehome.org/performances/20021214/index.shtml

Check out Marvin & Mavis do Broadway at 22:21 for high lonesome showtunes. Too funny!

Andy Volk · Post by **Andy Volk** » 24 Nov 2003 4:52 pm

http://www.prairiehome.org/performances/20021214/index.shtml

Check out Marvin & Mavis do Broadway at 22:21 for high lonesome showtunes. Too funny!

Gary Dunn · Post by **Gary Dunn** » 4 Dec 2003 11:00 pm

Well, if bluegrass were a drug, then stick a IV in my arm and put me on a steady drip(and make it a fast one).

Stephen Gregory · Post by **Stephen Gregory** » 5 Dec 2003 5:40 am

It's not the "High Lonesome Sound" that bugs me, it's the extremely poorly executed ie "out of tune" high lonesome sound that gets on my nerves. For instance Ralph Stanley's vocals on the GOO lately have been excruciatingly out of tune. When we put these performers on a pedastal to the point that non-fans are exposed to them, then this is not a good way to win new fans.

Bob Stone · Post by **Bob Stone** » 5 Dec 2003 7:44 am

I prefer Morpeth Rant to this bluegrass rant.

Winnie Winston and Mark Van Allen have made some well-founded points.

Is Rosine, KY in the mountains?

[This message was edited by Bob Stone on 05 December 2003 at 07:49 AM.]

Damir Besic · Post by **Damir Besic** » 5 Dec 2003 5:54 pm

"For instance Ralph Stanley's vocals on the GOO lately have been excruciatingly out of tune"

well,how about the fact that Ralph Stanley is an old man in his 70`s,and how about you get some of those old Stanley Brothers records and check out the singing on there, and then you let me know if Ralph Stanley was a good player and singer or not.

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[This message was edited by Damir Besic on 05 December 2003 at 05:55 PM.]