Synth guitar? on Orpy sounds like steel

Jim Smith · Post by **Jim Smith** » 16 Oct 2000 5:51 pm

I finally had time to watch my tape of Saturday's show, and I'll have to agree with Bob Drawbaugh on this one. That was a very poor imitation, and he should be very embarassed to even attempt something like that on national TV, especially on a venue that at times features the very best pedal steel players in the world.

On a slightly different note, did anyone notice the commercial during the Opry broadcast with the teenage valley girls promoting the new "Pop" sound of the new TNN "The National Network"?

Theresa Galbraith · Post by **Theresa Galbraith** » 16 Oct 2000 6:02 pm

Hey!
My husband plays guitar.If a guitar player can play what is expected why do you object?

Jim Smith · Post by **Jim Smith** » 16 Oct 2000 6:25 pm

Theresa, if your question is aimed at me, I'll be glad to answer. My first opportunity to hear your husband live was at St. Louis this year with Paul. He is a great guitar player, but I didn't hear him trying to play pedal steel licks on his six string in front of 3,000 steel players.

I'm sure that if he wished to play steel licks (which he probably can do) that he would do them MUCH more convincingly than what I heard on national TV on a show that (used to) specialize in traditional country music.

That was a very simple steel part in Trisha's song. Tommy White (who was very noticably absent from the show) could have played that part with his eyes closed, were he given the opportunity, as he has for countless other bands that don't carry a steel player. She should be embarassed as well for not having the real thing on this, of all shows.

Maybe he played what Trisha expected, but not what musicians and educated listeners expected and deserved.

Theresa Galbraith · Post by **Theresa Galbraith** » 16 Oct 2000 6:42 pm

Jim,
Thanks! I know Gregg didn't play steel licks.
Playing with Paul I don't think he got the opportunity to and he didn't want to. Playing what is needed and was called for is important in music today!
I'm saying Gregg played what he felt at the time! It was a special thing! Theresa[This message was edited by Theresa Galbraith on 16 October 2000 at 07:55 PM.]

Joe Casey · Post by **Joe Casey** » 16 Oct 2000 7:37 pm

This is a hard one for me to call.I had guitar players who played steel licks in the old days when I didn't carry a steel in the band.That only made us realize that we should have one so we got a good one (Jim Smith).We even took a little less each night until club owners realized what we had.So if a situation called for a guitar player who has that ability to use his good judgement I think thats fine. However saturday night with Tommy around ,that wasn't good judgement.However it was good playing.But there is nothing like the real deal.JMHO

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CJC

[This message was edited by Joe Casey on 16 October 2000 at 08:43 PM.]

Doug Beaumier · Post by **Doug Beaumier** » 16 Oct 2000 9:46 pm

Asking whether a guitar player should play steel licks is kind of like asking if a steel player should play guitar licks. I'd say do whatever the situation requires. Versatility is the key. In some situations I find myself playing distorted slide guitar licks on my steel because that's what needed in the band. I see nothing wrong with a guitarist trying to sound like a steel, if there is no steel in the band. As Jim said , the Opry does seems like an odd venue to do this. The reason that I brought up this topic in the first place is because I was so surprised to hear this guitarist. I noticed the sound immediately and I sat "bolt upright" in my chair looking for the steel player!

Ron, funny that you should mention Jim Armenti. I just got home tonight from a recording session with Jim! He is a wonderful musician and he has great ideas for parts, harmonies, etc. I did overdubs on 5 songs... dobro, lap steel (C6) and pedal steel. Tomorrow night we finish up 3 more songs. Unfortuately the studio is on the 4th floor... no elevator!

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www.dougbsteel.com

Rick Schmidt · Post by **Rick Schmidt** » 16 Oct 2000 11:34 pm

I know a brilliant guitar player by the name of D.R. Auten who can play C6 style on a Strat better than alot of real C6 steel players ( ALOT of 6 stringers have copied E9th style with varying amounts of success...) not because he's trying to put anything over on anybody, or anything so shallow as that, but because he has tremendous ears, ridiculous chops, and loves the music that steel guitarist make. It's just one of the many bags that his ears have tranferred over to his hands. We should all have such ears!

Bill Hatcher · Post by **Bill Hatcher** » 17 Oct 2000 5:01 am

An imatation is ALWAYS just that----an imatation. If you want to musically lend credence to an imatation then do so. Pretty shallow in my estimation.

I did not see the actual crime described. A guitarist on the Grand Old Opry attempting to take the place sonically of a pedal steel guitar??!!!

Reminds me of some of the math/reasoning theories we studied in school---"A cow has four legs,a dog has four legs,therefore a dog is a cow".

Got to be some deep Freudian problem waaayyyy down in the brain stem of this guitarist and anyone else who remotely tolerates this travesty. Steel guitar licks played on the underarm guitar is one of the most hackneyed, ugly,trite, souless sounds. Sort of like "chicken pickin'" on a trumpet!!!!!!!!!!!

An old 1800s saying---A gentleman is a man who can play the saxophone-but choses not to.

Andy Alford · Post by **Andy Alford** » 18 Oct 2000 3:42 am

If you have a group who has a guitar player who can sound like a steel then that's geting two for one.I was impressed with Earwood's guitar player.The steel sound was there in the song without the pedal steel.

Bobby Lee · Post by **Bobby Lee** » 18 Oct 2000 11:36 am

There are a lot of things that a steel does that are impossible on guitar or synth. Pop licks, though, can be played on just about any instrument.

Joe Casey · Post by **Joe Casey** » 20 Oct 2000 6:36 am

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CJC

Harry Hess · Post by **Harry Hess** » 23 Oct 2000 6:40 pm

Ahh...bulldingy. The guy sounded like crap. I don't think he sounded at all like a PSG. If that's what a pedal steel is supposed to sound like... I got two Emmons and a Fessenden for sale.

Regards,
HH

Kenny Dail · Post by **Kenny Dail** » 23 Oct 2000 8:23 pm

The guitar player in question became famous for playing a PSG lick and I might add, it was done with a great degree of difficluly which entitles him to all the accolades. On the other hand, (great title for a country song) a PSG player playing the same lick on a steel most likley would have been nothing special but instead, a rather basic accomplishment.

Perhaps this was done as an indicator of things to come from those that have the power.

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kd...and the beat goes on...

Bob Hempker · Post by **Bob Hempker** » 26 Oct 2000 7:07 am

I have but one question.: How does a keyboard player, guitar player, or any other player "THINK" like a steel player. They may pull off a song or lick here and there, and use the Vol pedal for swells and such, but to play like a steel player, one has to "THINK" like a steel player, IMHO.

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Theresa Galbraith · Post by **Theresa Galbraith** » 26 Oct 2000 7:38 am

Bob,
How does a steel player think like a horn, keyboard, guitar player etc. Can't other musicians learn from each other?

Boomer · Post by **Boomer** » 27 Oct 2000 4:31 am

Bob - "Think like a steel player"???
Is that an oxymoron?

Best, Boomer

Joe Casey · Post by **Joe Casey** » 27 Oct 2000 5:35 am

You mean other musicians still help each other???? I thought it was everyman for himself.

Oboy now watch someone take me serious.

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CJC

Bob Hempker · Post by **Bob Hempker** » 30 Oct 2000 8:05 am

Theresa, with all due respect, learning from each other, which I feel we all have done, and completely "replacing" another instrument is two different things. I think you're comparing apples to oranges. I enjoy listenting to synthesizers, and appreciate the things they can do. I just don't feel that you can replace another instrument totally with a synthesizer player. Sure, I've learned from horn players, guitar players, keyboard players, and such, but I would only be fooling myself to think I could use a midi rig and actually "replace" any other bona fide musician(s). I feel that when you adopt an instrument as "your instrument," after a period of time it becomes an extension of your being. Another person who plays a totally different instrument cannot completely think the same way as someone who has devoted their entire life to playing a certain instrument. Again, they may pull off a lick, riff, or even a complete solo on something, but to totally replace any other instrument with a synthesizer keyboard, guitar, steel midi, or anything else, is but a temporary "gimmick."

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Bob Hempker · Post by **Bob Hempker** » 30 Oct 2000 8:06 am

Theresa, with all due respect, learning from each other, which I feel we all have done, and completely "replacing" another instrument is two different things. I think you're comparing apples to oranges. I enjoy listenting to synthesizers, and appreciate the things they can do. I just don't feel that you can replace another instrument totally with a synthesizer player. Sure, I've learned from horn players, guitar players, keyboard players, and such, but I would only be fooling myself to think I could use a midi rig and actually "replace" any other bona fide musician(s). I feel that when you adopt an instrument as "your instrument," after a period of time it becomes an extension of your being. Another person who plays a totally different instrument cannot completely think the same way as someone who has devoted their entire life to playing a certain instrument. Again, they may pull off a lick, riff, or even a complete solo on something, but to totally replace any other instrument with a synthesizer keyboard, guitar, steel midi, or anything else, is but a temporary "gimmick."

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