Finding a Fuzz pedal for PSG that cuts through a mix

[Rich Ertelt]

Something to consider, which I found out years ago, using various distortion on guitar.

When you are setting up and testing your levels, don't test the balance of the OD sound with the amp turned up. The way distortion is, compressing the sound, it Always sounds way louder than it really is. Do that at sound check, guarantee you will be told to turn down, you're too loud. Then, in the mix, you get lost at bands volume. I always turn the amp down low, listen to the level of the clean sound, then, engage the OD, and balance it that way.

Another way to test is record clean and OD, along with say a backing track, and then listen back. See what it Really sounds like in a mix.

The issue may simply be that with OD on, you are just not loud enough. You may need to turn the pedal up.

However, you do need to test it. I've run into pedals that, though loud, and you could tell they were loud, they just didn't cut because they were so scooped, there was nothing in the mids TO cut through. So, the above is not a given, just something to be aware of.

[Craig A Davidson]

I use either a Ratt or a Tubescreamer right after the guitar and before the volume pedal.

[Rich Ertelt]

I have been struggling with this issue forever. At this point what I do is use an overdrive/fuzz pedal that sounds good and turn it up. Because of the nature of the basic sound difference between a clean and distorted tone the overdriven sound just needs to be louder in order to maintain its position in the mix. A clean signal on the steel is like a laser beam and an overdriven signal is like a flood light.

I've found (I have been playing guitar with ODs for 50 years) that OD Sounds loud when you test it during sound check/setup. Because of all the over tones and compression you get max volume out if right off. I always get my balance with the amp turned way down. Believe me, if you check the level, without the band playing, as soon as you hit the OD you are going to get "Turn down!". And if you do, you will be buried in the mix as soon as you hit it.

Record it. Look in the daw, and See how the OD level is compared to the clean sound. That is a very informative test.

[Jim Pitman]

I have to say I've never been a fan of PSG with overdrive or fuzz. That's why I use a lap steel for that sound. PSG has so much natural sustain and compression that it just doesn't work well with dirt pedals IMO.
I've got a gig tonight whereby the band is surprising the band leader with the Beatles "Birthday". We won't have an electric guitarist. I could use the lap steel but there are other keyboard parts that are more easily covered with PSG. I may try just overdriving my analog delay unit for the time being but I too am looking for a better PSG/dirt solution.

[Bob Hoffnar]

I have been struggling with this issue forever. At this point what I do is use an overdrive/fuzz pedal that sounds good and turn it up. Because of the nature of the basic sound difference between a clean and distorted tone the overdriven sound just needs to be louder in order to maintain its position in the mix. A clean signal on the steel is like a laser beam and an overdriven signal is like a flood light.

I've found (I have been playing guitar with ODs for 50 years) that OD Sounds loud when you test it during sound check/setup. Because of all the over tones and compression you get max volume out if right off. I always get my balance with the amp turned way down. Believe me, if you check the level, without the band playing, as soon as you hit the OD you are going to get "Turn down!". And if you do, you will be buried in the mix as soon as you hit it.

Record it. Look in the daw, and See how the OD level is compared to the clean sound. That is a very informative test.

I am only speaking from personal experience within the context of playing pedalsteel live and recording. I have done way more study and work on this while on the bandstand playing pedalsteel than any sane person would attempt. I even brought set lists to soundmen at the better venues and had them take notes on my gain levels during the sets. The experience of a guitar player is very different. The logic that applies to guitar does not directly relate to the pedalsteel. It seems like it would but in practice it does not.

As far as recording goes an overdriven signal contains way more odd partial overtone information. This creates difference tones and all sorts of sonic artifacts that all sound very cool. But it has a very different function in terms of audible information in a mix . The clear even overtone sound that is a unique feature of a pedalsteel can hold its own in a mix with much less gain than an overdriven odd partial type tone. Think of it like an oboe or french horns compared to a sax.

[Rich Ertelt]

I am only speaking from personal experience within the context of playing pedalsteel live and recording. I have done way more study and work on this while on the bandstand playing pedalsteel than any sane person would attempt. I even brought set lists to soundmen at the better venues and had them take notes on my gain levels during the sets. The experience of a guitar player is very different. The logic that applies to guitar does not directly relate to the pedalsteel. It seems like it would but in practice it does not.

As far as recording goes an overdriven signal contains way more odd partial overtone information. This creates difference tones and all sorts of sonic artifacts that all sound very cool. But it has a very different function in terms of audible information in a mix . The clear even overtone sound that is a unique feature of a pedalsteel can hold its own in a mix with much less gain than an overdriven odd partial type tone. Think of it like an oboe or french horns compared to a sax.

Oh, yea, I get it, and respect that you would put that much work into figuring it out.
I haven't played a ton of OD on steel, but have done some, live and record. Just did a session and one track was OD steel.

All I was saying is, what I've run into is, OD just Sounds loud, by itself like pre gig check, when in the mix, it isn't loud enough. Yea, too much OD can turn the tone to mush that will never cut, but sometimes, with all that extra harmonic content, it can Sound louder than it really is, in context. Just something I was thinking about reading the OP. Sometimes the fix is less OD, sometimes it can be simply more volume. Just depends.

Anyway, my 2 cents, for what it's worth.

[Mark Perrodin]

a question for Bob H,
are you using fuzz when you play your Clinesmith? how does that sound? i have a '60 wright custom and playing a fuzz pedal with a pickup that reads about 3.3k is stunning. i love it!

[Kerry Johnson]

Sarno Earth Drive here !

[Bob Hoffnar]

a question for Bob H,
are you using fuzz when you play your Clinesmith? how does that sound? i have a '60 wright custom and playing a fuzz pedal with a pickup that reads about 3.3k is stunning. i love it!

Mark,
A Clinesmith sounds glorious pretty much all the time no matter what you do with it !

[Rob Morrison]

Something to consider, which I found out years ago, using various distortion on guitar.

When you are setting up and testing your levels, don't test the balance of the OD sound with the amp turned up. The way distortion is, compressing the sound, it Always sounds way louder than it really is. Do that at sound check, guarantee you will be told to turn down, you're too loud. Then, in the mix, you get lost at bands volume. I always turn the amp down low, listen to the level of the clean sound, then, engage the OD, and balance it that way.

This is sage advice! It's kind of a jerky move on my part, but I've learned over the years not to demonstrate too much with my dirt pedals during soundcheck, because in isolation, they always seem too loud to the sound technician, but those same settings would likely be too low when the full band is playing. (Sorry sound techs, I owe you a beer!)

By the way, my Mooer Black Secret really has been working like a charm for the kind of distortion I was going for on pedal steel. Thanks to all the folks who suggested going in a Rat-ty direction!

[Eric Richardson]

Chiming in to say that I absolutely love the Fairfield Circuitry ~900 with steel. I've owned a ton of fuzz to use over the years with regular guitar, and I found most of them didn't really work as well with steel as I'd hoped.

I've found a lot of vintage style fuzz pedals don't love the high output pickups most steels have.

The ~900 controls are very interactive, and the bias knob has a wild range. The input gain AND fuzz gain options work great with steel. It's really easy to dial in, and it cuts through in a band setting.

Everything Fairfield makes is exceptional, and this is no exception.

[Rob Morrison]

Chiming in to say that I absolutely love the Fairfield Circuitry ~900 with steel. I've owned a ton of fuzz to use over the years with regular guitar, and I found most of them didn't really work as well with steel as I'd hoped.

I've found a lot of vintage style fuzz pedals don't love the high output pickups most steels have.

The ~900 controls are very interactive, and the bias knob has a wild range. The input gain AND fuzz gain options work great with steel. It's really easy to dial in, and it cuts through in a band setting.

Everything Fairfield makes is exceptional, and this is no exception.

Ooh interesting, I love the Fairfield Circuitry stuff I've played, but I don't own any of their pedals and haven't tried this one. I'll keep a lookout!