Carter Guitar String Return

Hook Moore · Post by **Hook Moore** » 21 May 2006 8:36 am

Well anyway, my Carter has no problems either Bruce

Hook

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www.HookMoore.com

Michael Holland · Post by **Michael Holland** » 21 May 2006 8:54 am

I think this might be the year I get my first Carter. Thanks for the post, Bruce.

Lee Baucum · Post by **Lee Baucum** » 21 May 2006 9:56 am

Bobby Boggs wrote:

The whole tone lowers and tone and 1/2 can be a real problem.

On my Mullen, the 6th string is raised a half step with a pedal and lowered a whole step with a knee lever. Both changes return to G#, dead on, measuring with two different tuners.

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Lee, from South Texas
Down On The Rio Grande

Mullen U-12, Excel 8-string Frypan, Evans FET-500, Fender Steel King

Curt Langston · Post by **Curt Langston** » 21 May 2006 10:00 am

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR>Curt , I think the lower profile neck with a slightly less angle down to the keyheads is a clear benefit..

<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Tony
That is just my guess. I have owned a Carter, and it too did not have a string return problem. I love Carter guitars. If I were to buy another keyed guitar it would be a Carter, for that very reason.

Alan
I don't mean to bore or irritate you with my opinion.

Brian Henry · Post by **Brian Henry** » 21 May 2006 10:18 am

Oh by the way Curt, one of my students has a keyless. We just tested it and it does not return to pitch!! He was very impressed with my Carter, which does return to pitch perfectly each time. This thread may just lengthen the waiting list for Carters!!!

Alan James · Post by **Alan James** » 21 May 2006 10:24 am

These will be my last words on this subject.

It's not the opinions. It's the constant repetition over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again, etc., ad infinitum.

Well, I'm sure you get the idea.

Redundantly yours,
Alan James

b0b · Post by **b0b** » 21 May 2006 10:24 am

<h3 align="center">Thanks, Bruce, for your post on the subject.</h3> It's refreshing to read facts from a top professional's experience instead of opinions and theories.

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<img align=left src="http://b0b.com/b0bxicon.gif" border="0"> Bobby Lee
-b0b- quasar@b0b.com 
System Administrator 
My Blog

Bobby Boggs · Post by **Bobby Boggs** » 21 May 2006 10:38 am

Thanks Lee. How about 5 and 10 lowered a whole tone.Do they also return true? Now here's a tough one. How about the 10th string on C6th lowered a tone and a 1/2. If that one comes back true.You're really hitting.

BTW. Thanks for sharing this.....Regards Bobby

Curt Langston · Post by **Curt Langston** » 21 May 2006 10:43 am

tb

Oh by the way Curt, one of my students has a keyless. We just tested it and it does not return to pitch!!

I would check the changer, since the keyless design could not be the source of the non-return issue. Then check the strings.

Alan:

One more time to add to your list.(some folk need repetition to sink in)

[This message was edited by Curt Langston on 21 May 2006 at 11:47 AM.]

Curt Langston · Post by **Curt Langston** » 21 May 2006 10:52 am

b0b:

Imagine my surprise when I purchased my first Carter and it didn't have the return compensators that I had expected. Guess what1 It doesn't need them.

That is a fact from Bruce. And I believe him.

Just like me stating that my Sierra,(and other keyless I have had) do not have a need for them either!

[This message was edited by Curt Langston on 21 May 2006 at 11:53 AM.]

Curt Langston · Post by **Curt Langston** » 21 May 2006 11:05 am

Alan,

Per Ed Packard's calculations:

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR>ed packard
Member
From: Show Low AZ
posted 21 May 2006 10:41 AM profile send email edit
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Curt...for what it is worth, I took out my keyless Sierra crown series, and an older Sierra Session Series and tested them with the Peterson. The results are about the same as on the BEAST on both of them. I believe that I stated that the BEAST had less than one cent...too little to measure...this got rounded up to one cent in the subsequent posts.
I also took out the Sho Bud Pro...you can guess the results.

Paul F...if you read this...when you find that string that does not seem to have any over return, would you try rotating the roller a quarter turn to see if the amount changes? You could do that with any string and see if the amount changes also.

<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Remember this is not an opinion, this is actual testing.

less than one cent...too little to measure

Being right is not always popular.
AND, being popular is not always right.

Eric West · Post by **Eric West** » 21 May 2006 11:14 am

Thank you b0b for thanking Mr Bouten.

Not enough of the rest of us thank some of these guys.

EJL

Frank Parish · Post by **Frank Parish** » 21 May 2006 12:52 pm

Curt,
I think we all could probably guess you're a keyless man. That's good and good for you if it's what you like. The trouble is we've read it in about four different threads this week. I can't think of one serious recording steel guitar player today that's using a keyless. I'm talking about recording the tunes we hear on top country stations, not instrumental albums. Tom Brumley plays a keyless now but when he was recording for Buck Owens, he had an old heavy keyed guitar and it sounded great. A lot of them guitars are collectable today and still sound great. Imagine that, a heavy old keyed guitar on hit records![This message was edited by Frank Parish on 21 May 2006 at 01:53 PM.]

Bruce Bouton · Post by **Bruce Bouton** » 21 May 2006 1:33 pm

i'm only curious as to possible reasons as to why these different phonomenon's occur.it is by no means an attempt to discredit any guitars because of the string return issue.It's my opinion that the Carter was the exception to the rule on the return issue.This problem has plagued the steel guitar for as long as I have been aware. In fact many of my favorite studio players modified their tuning copedents in order to work around the tuning discrepencies caused by the string return issue . One of the biggest reasons for going to an all pull steel guitar was having the ability to install return compensators. I have no problem adjusting my Franklin to return to pitch by using the compensators. I wish I could put some on my push pull.
BB

Curt Langston · Post by **Curt Langston** » 21 May 2006 1:48 pm

Hey Bruce,
Yes, When I had my Carter, I noticed the same thing. In fact, it was the only keyed guitar that I have had that did not have an issue with string return. I still say that it has something to do with the keyhead not being as far down(lower) than the fretboard. I don't know, but it would seem to me that, there would be less tension on the roller nut to cause string return issues. Plus, I think the keyhead is actually shorter, and that will prevent non-return to some degree.
Whatever the combination, Carter is the only keyed guitar, that I know of that returns true, without the need for compensators.

[This message was edited by Curt Langston on 21 May 2006 at 03:05 PM.]

Billy Carr · Post by **Billy Carr** » 21 May 2006 2:33 pm

Well, I guess all this about the CARTERS is the reason I've purchased five Carters and just traded a GFI for #6. I like all brands of guitars. I find good points with every brand but with my Carters, I'm yet to have a problem. If something works, why change it?

Lee Baucum · Post by **Lee Baucum** » 21 May 2006 4:16 pm

Bobby - I don't lower the B's a whole tone.
I play a 12-string E9/B6 Universal. I just checked the boo-wah pedal, B down to G#. It also returns true.

Lee

C. Christofferson · Post by **C. Christofferson** » 22 May 2006 10:01 am

Bruce, Just wanted to relate a tidbit. Last summer when i was being overcome with initial steel fever but didn't yet have anything to practice on or any material to look at, at the S.L.C. library which i frequent, just out of 'hopeless desperation' i punched in 'pedal steel' in the book searcher and there was your new video - and it was right at the branch where i was ! If anyone ever enjoyed your tape more than me I don't know who. I learned the beginning and end songs note (almost) for note, not to mention all of the rest. Good oportunity to say Thanks.
www.geocities.com/steelergy19

David Wren · Post by **David Wren** » 22 May 2006 10:35 am

I have the reason the Carter PSGs work so well...... Bud

When you've spent as much time bulding and designing PSGs as Bud Carter, you see a lot of things that work, and a lot that don't... plain and simple for me, and when I met the man who built the MSA I had been playing since 1970... and learned he now had his own company... I ordered one without even playing or hearing one. Just knew it would be a dandy.... and I was not mistaken.

I'm sure much the same can be said for Reese and Gene Fields... and their products.

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Dave Wren
'96 Carter S12-E9/B6,7X7; Twin Session 500s; Hilton Pedal; Black Box
www.ameechapman.com

Bobby Boggs · Post by **Bobby Boggs** » 22 May 2006 11:15 am

Thanks Lee for going to the trouble. Very interesting........bb

Bobby Boggs · Post by **Bobby Boggs** » 22 May 2006 5:04 pm

I've been informed by Carter Guitars that lower return comps are not needed nor are they an option.It was this link that thru me off.Guess I should have taken more time to read it.Sorry gang..........bb http://www.steelguitar.com/pricedom.htm
SCroll down to were it reads Compensators (per string)

Tommy Detamore · Post by **Tommy Detamore** » 23 May 2006 5:18 am

I have had the same experience with my Carter. No compensators needed, and the overall tuning stability is the best of any guitar I have have ever owned.

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Tommy Detamore
www.cherryridgestudio.com

[This message was edited by Tommy Detamore on 23 May 2006 at 06:18 AM.]

Curt Langston · Post by **Curt Langston** » 23 May 2006 7:01 am

Yep, Carter's low profile takes some stress off of the roller nut, to prevent over-return. Hard to beat, those Carters!

John Bechtel · Post by **John Bechtel** » 23 May 2006 7:53 am

If you own a Derby that doesn't come back to true~pitch, the fault is your own! (over-tuned) From my experience, Derby Guitars do not have any disernable problems in this regard!

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“Big John”
a.k.a. {Keoni Nui}
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