Does cabinet drop exist or not?

Charlie McDonald · Post by **Charlie McDonald** » 26 Jan 2006 12:55 pm

The only way to resist cabinet flex:

Jim West · Post by **Jim West** » 26 Jan 2006 1:37 pm

I say cabinet drop as it relates to the PSG detuning does not exist.

Curt Langston · Post by **Curt Langston** » 26 Jan 2006 1:41 pm

So if that's the case, then what is it that the counterforce does on the Emmons Legrande III guitars?

Nothing. It is just there to jack up the price.

Bobby Boggs · Post by **Bobby Boggs** » 26 Jan 2006 2:06 pm

Nothing. It is just there to jack up the price

Wrong!!!!!!! When adjusted, The counterforce allows for zero cabinet drop on the pedals it's connected to.It will spoil you. I have one here at home. The other 2 do not have a counterforce.When I get to the gig.I have to remember to compensate with the bar.

For anyone interested in Emmons Guitars take on the counterforce? Click or copy and paste this link........bb
http://www.emmonsguitar.net/lashleylegrande.htm [This message was edited by Bobby Boggs on 26 January 2006 at 06:42 PM.]

John Bechtel · Post by **John Bechtel** » 26 Jan 2006 8:45 pm

I wasn't going to mention it, because; an arguement would be meaningless here, but; I've checked over my new Derby today and I haven't discovered any audible detuning factor! I didn't even bother much with a meter, because; if I can't hear it, there is no problem for me! I guess ignorence really is bliss!

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“Big John”
a.k.a. {Keoni Nui}
’05 D–10 Derby
’65 Re-Issue Fender Twin–Reverb Custom™ 15”
Current Equipment

Billy Carr · Post by **Billy Carr** » 27 Jan 2006 12:15 am

I've had probably close to 40 guitars over the last 30 or so years. On each and every one of them, I've had to find the little things that are not prefect and work around them. Even on the new ones I've bought, there'll be a little something somewhere that won't be just right. I just simply work around it and go on.

Tony Harris · Post by **Tony Harris** » 27 Jan 2006 2:12 am

I'm lucky enough to play lap steel, so avoid all these mechanical issues. When I see the undercarriage of a PSG, my mind boggles. Even with modern mechanics, pulling and releasing all those strings is bound to cause trouble! Do you think we're barking up the wrong tree here? Would a completely different system be the answer? The Variax guitar can electronically switch tunings. Maybe electronic pedals could raise and lower the string pitch to EXACTLY the right note...? 21st Century Steel?

Mark Vinbury · Post by **Mark Vinbury** » 27 Jan 2006 6:12 am

I believe some kind of linear drives and electronics will replace the rod/changer mechanism.TransPerformance has already incorperated their hardware into a PSG.
They used to have a pic on their web site.I'll see if I can dig it up.
I eMailed them inquiring about this a year ago but received no reply.
I'd imagine it is tricky to work up a controler that will respond at the level required.

Earnest Bovine · Post by **Earnest Bovine** » 27 Jan 2006 8:45 am

A system like the Transperformance device would not work for pedal steel guitar. It tunes by listening to the pitch of a vibrating open string, while we need to move to a pre-calibrated stop.
Also, the book says its rate is one whole step per second. We would need about 20 times that rate, and it would need to follow the movement of the pedal or knee lever along the way.

Bill Hankey · Post by **Bill Hankey** » 27 Jan 2006 1:53 pm

I was able to put the troublesome 6th string drop-off (which occurs when the E-F change is actuated) on the run, by installing my "GOLO" which nudges the 6th string sharp a silly iota. Whenever the "F" lever is pressed, the device brings the 6th into proper pitch.

Bill

Lee Baucum · Post by **Lee Baucum** » 27 Jan 2006 3:25 pm

Bill - I recall your original post about this device; however, I do not remember any of the details. Would you elaborate and maybe post a picture or two?

Thanks.

Lee

Kevin Hatton · Post by **Kevin Hatton** » 27 Jan 2006 3:39 pm

Yeah, thats the solution. Lets make pedal steel guitars so all you have to do is push an electronic button. Lets take ALL the work out of playing pedal steel.

Bill Hankey · Post by **Bill Hankey** » 28 Jan 2006 5:23 am

Lee,

I found a couple of errors in trying to explain how the "GOLO" "works", so I've deleted the message. Thanks for the inquiry.

Bill[This message was edited by Bill Hankey on 28 January 2006 at 10:19 AM.]

Curt Langston · Post by **Curt Langston** » 28 Jan 2006 6:40 am

I didn't even bother much with a meter, because; if I can't hear it, there is no problem for me!

Exactly! "cabinet drop" was born the day that the quartz tuner was invented.

[This message was edited by Curt Langston on 28 January 2006 at 07:12 AM.]

Bill Hankey · Post by **Bill Hankey** » 28 Jan 2006 7:18 am

Retuning the 6th string time and time again can be frustrating. It can prove to be as annoying as a tin ear.

Bill

Jerry Miller · Post by **Jerry Miller** » 28 Jan 2006 9:27 am

I don't see all the fuss about cab drop I like tony's post can you hear it? ...most psg players can't hear it if not all and all listeners can't at all it is a true case of majoring over a minor you have to get a tuner to "see" it I think Paul F. said it once somewhere on here somrthing like this "what is steel guitar without a bit of cab drop" don't mean to stir things up but that is my 0.02 worth

richard burton · Post by **richard burton** » 28 Jan 2006 10:12 am

Jerry,
'Most psg players can't hear it'.

That's quite a sweeping generalisation, and quite opposite to conventional wisdom.

Jerry Miller · Post by **Jerry Miller** » 28 Jan 2006 11:50 am

your right richard I have noticed that most not all but most are more into "what color, what amp, what brand,fx, strings,cab drop etc that they don't seem to have a good understanding of how to play the thing. I have owned 3 guitars still own 2 of them been playing 22yrs thus far seems like there is to much intrest in finding the Holy Grail that all else goes by the wayside I just feel it is much to do about nothing again my 0.02 worth Jerry [This message was edited by Jerry Miller on 28 January 2006 at 12:00 PM.]

Donny Hinson · Post by **Donny Hinson** » 28 Jan 2006 12:53 pm

Retuning the 6th string time and time again can be frustrating.

Yes, and it's also a good reason to get another (better built) guitar! There's plenty guitars out there that have minimal (inaudible) cabinet drop. If you're playing a guitar that looks good, and has a great tone, but is a pain in the ass to tune and play in tune, then you have no one to blame but yourself.

The best tone in the world ain't worth a damn when it's out of tune.

Bill Hankey · Post by **Bill Hankey** » 28 Jan 2006 1:37 pm

Donny,

If you subject the world's best made steel guitar to sudden temperature changes, the expansion and contraction of the instrument, particularly the steel strings, causes a detuning. The friction from your hands alone can easily cause pitch variances.

Bill

David Doggett · Post by **David Doggett** » 28 Jan 2006 2:48 pm

Jerry, there is no secret to learning to play well: get good instruction and practice a lot...oh yeah, and be born with talent. There is not much you can discuss about that here. All the rest of the stuff can be a mystery, if you don't live around a lot of steelers and steel shops. Generally regular guitar players and the average music shop are clueless about steel guitars, amps and effects. Here on the Forum is the place to go to find out about all that, ask questions, and learn tons. If you know all you need to know, then you can skip these discussions. But others who can benefit shouldn't be discouraged from questioning and learning; and it's not fair to disparage them as poor players just because they like to discuss these things. Every top pro I have ever met knows tons of this stuff, and learned it by trying lots of equipment and talking to a lot of other players, dealers and manufacturers. It is a legitimate part of learning to play the instrument.

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Student of the Steel: Zum uni, Fender tube amps, squareneck and roundneck resos, tenor sax, keyboards

Damir Besic · Post by **Damir Besic** » 28 Jan 2006 3:01 pm

So, your 4th string went flat! What did that prove? Look for one that went sharp and explain that, if possible!

LMAO..I have to remember this one,this is great

Db

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"Promat"
~when tone matters~
http://hometown.aol.com/damirzanne2/PROMAT.html

Jerry Miller · Post by **Jerry Miller** » 28 Jan 2006 3:13 pm

David I was not trying to say that they were bad players because some of the ones are quite good it just seems that when a bunch of us get around each other that is the topic of conversation, I am guilty of it to but I notice it more than often please don't take my post as a put down it was not intended that way just a obsevation is all.
Jerry

Terry Edwards · Post by **Terry Edwards** » 28 Jan 2006 3:24 pm

Well, I tune JI so I start out a little flat and sharp on some strings.

If a little cabinet drop bothers you, come on over to the JI side! When I "mash" the pedals I get in tune!

Terry

Bill Moran · Post by **Bill Moran** » 28 Jan 2006 4:04 pm

The little bit the cabinet plays in the tuning should be considered character.
Every player has his or her own character.
Why shouldn't the pedal steel have its own.
Turn the page guys. Love it or leave it.

Bill Moran
[This message was edited by Bill Moran on 28 January 2006 at 04:08 PM.]