A Blindfold Test

Randy Beavers · Post by **Randy Beavers** » 16 Aug 2005 2:26 pm

Hmm... we have three very different answers. But wait, what's behind door number 4?

Dennis Detweiler · Post by **Dennis Detweiler** » 16 Aug 2005 7:18 pm

Randy, don't devulge until after the convention. I want a stab at this. But, I'll select the Hybrid tracks?
DD

Mark Krutke · Post by **Mark Krutke** » 19 Aug 2005 8:36 am

That's no fair Dennis.....you play a Zum

------------------
Mark Wayne

<A HREF="http://www.authenticrecording.com" TARGET=_blank>www.authenticrecording.com</A>

Randy Beavers · Post by **Randy Beavers** » 24 Aug 2005 5:51 am

Dennis, I'll wait until after the show.

I was on the Steel Guitar chat room the other night and the folks there didn't do so well at guessing.

This is strictly for fun, so come on and post your answers. I'll admit, I probably wouldn't get them all right either if I were in your shoes. I still haven't figured out how my son did.

------------------
Randy
http://hometown.aol.com/pulltightb/home.html

Bobby Bowman · Post by **Bobby Bowman** » 24 Aug 2005 9:11 am

My wife, Toni, has the CD with her so I'm trying to go from memory here. I think tracks 2, 4, 5, 8 and 9 are the Emmons Push Pull.
I reserve the right to change my mind if and when she let's me have it back.

BB

------------------
If you play 'em, play 'em good!
If you build 'em, build 'em good!
http://www.bobbybowman.com

Bobbe Seymour · Post by **Bobbe Seymour** » 24 Aug 2005 9:57 am

I have conducted several "Blindfold" tests in the past few years and have found that some of the best blindfolds are made by the "Tommy Hilfiger" company.
In my own testing , I have found that a material made from a dark black cloth works best, dry and knotted with a double knot in back.
Blindfold testing is my specialty.

Dennis Detweiler · Post by **Dennis Detweiler** » 24 Aug 2005 2:50 pm

HaHa! Bobbe, you're congressional material.

And playing a good game of pin the tail on the donkey doesn't count!
I don't claim to have "the ear", so I'll gamble.[This message was edited by Dennis Detweiler on 24 August 2005 at 08:53 PM.]

Buck Grantham R.I.P. · Post by **Buck Grantham R.I.P.** » 24 Aug 2005 5:50 pm

Well, I played a pp Emmons for about 25 years so hopefully I will be able to recognise that sound. I'll pick up the cd when I get to St Louis and listen and try my luck on it .

Ricky Davis · Post by **Ricky Davis** » 5 Sep 2005 9:23 am

Well??? Randy; so what's the final results here pal.???
Ricky

Randy Beavers · Post by **Randy Beavers** » 5 Sep 2005 11:18 am

Hey Ricky, I had several people get the CD this weekend that want to try their ears, so I'll give them a little more time. But not too much longer.

Matt Elsen · Post by **Matt Elsen** » 5 Sep 2005 12:08 pm

Randy,

Fabulous album. Congratulations!

I'd guess Emmons on these tracks:
2
4
5
8
10

Best Regards,
Matt

Bobbe Seymour · Post by **Bobbe Seymour** » 5 Sep 2005 5:14 pm

OK, I give up, which tracks did you use the blindfold on Randy???

Randy Beavers · Post by **Randy Beavers** » 5 Sep 2005 6:19 pm

"now a stab at the album............I am picking the Emmons on trax 2, 4, and 5........Zum on all the other ones......actually on 8 and 10 I was tempted to go with the Emmons.......had I listened a little more I may have made a different decision, but wanted to get this to you.........Dan Hoff"

Here is another entry!

Bobbe, Speedy used to sneak up behind me and put a blindfold on me right in the middle of a solo. Jeff Newman would put a bag over my head. I miss those guys.

Bobbe Seymour · Post by **Bobbe Seymour** » 6 Sep 2005 5:59 am

Somehow I don't feel a blindfold would slow you up at all, you are truly one of the greatest players ever. Jeff and Speedy would agree if they were here.
Bobbe

Dennis Detweiler · Post by **Dennis Detweiler** » 6 Sep 2005 9:48 pm

I posted this sunday evening, but for some reason it never arrived here? So now...
1- Zum
2- Zum
3- Emmons
4- Zum
5- Zum
6- Emmons
7- Emmons
8- Zum
9- Zum
10-Emmons
11-Zum
12-Emmons
Actually I changed my mind twice on 9 & 10.
However, they could all be Zum and maybe parts of a few songs were Emmons?
If there's a prize for last place, I'll take it! Mickey Mouse ears maybe?
And Randy, great emotion and talent in those pinkies.
Looking forward to seeing and hearing you in Waterloo for the Northeast Iowa Steel Guitar Jam in February if you can stay away from that trowel long enough to let the shoulders heal. I do similar work and get the twinges lately.
Dennis

Randy Beavers · Post by **Randy Beavers** » 8 Sep 2005 4:49 am

And the winner is...
going once...
twice..

Well, here's the list,

1. Emmons
2. Emmons
3. Zum
4. Emmons
5. ???,???
6. Zum
7. Zum
8. Emmons
9. Emmons
10. Emmons
11. Zum
12. Zum

Now no fair going back and editing your answers! Some good ears here. As you noticed I didn't give an answer for #5, "Blessed Assurance." And since we have a tie between Ricky, Bobby, and Matt for the number of correct answers, 8, we can have a playoff.

On Blessed Assurance I used both guitars, so everybody's answer is right and wrong. One guitar is on the intro, C6th, while the rest of the song, E9th, is done on the other. Give it a listen post your answer.

Ricky Davis · Post by **Ricky Davis** » 8 Sep 2005 9:48 am

Ok for the Tie-Breaker:
The Intro was done on the C6th side of the Emmons and the rest of the song with the Band; is on the E9th of the Zum....
Gosh that was Easy Randy my Brother....what else ya got....ha...

I love it man....your playing is a earful of Precision and Dynamics.
Ricky

Bobby Bowman · Post by **Bobby Bowman** » 8 Sep 2005 1:07 pm

Randy, Ricky and Matt,
Now you guys gotta' remember that I had to do mine from memory. Probably if I'd have had the CD with me I would have got them all right.

I must remove myself from the tie breaker because Randy (evidently he forgot that he had done so)told me about the "split" song. Trouble is,,,,I can't remember what he told me. haha!
BB

------------------
If you play 'em, play 'em good!
If you build 'em, build 'em good!
http://www.bobbybowman.com

Dennis Detweiler · Post by **Dennis Detweiler** » 8 Sep 2005 3:01 pm

Uhhhhh..."do overs!" Nine of mine were reversed. The Emmons sounded like a Zum and the Zum sounded like an Emmons. Guess I detected a difference, but couldn't decide which tone fit the guitar. It's Bruce's fault!
And Seizurmour is still trying to figure out which blindfold was used??

Randy Beavers · Post by **Randy Beavers** » 8 Sep 2005 5:03 pm

Matt???

Ricky, is that your final answer???

Matt Elsen · Post by **Matt Elsen** » 8 Sep 2005 7:30 pm

I made my original "Emmons" guess based on what I heard during the intro.... so I'll stick with that and say:

Emmons on the intro and Zum during the rest of the tune.

Best Regards to all -

Matt

Dennis Detweiler · Post by **Dennis Detweiler** » 8 Sep 2005 8:24 pm

Possibly, one conclusion of this test is the obvious closeness of tone that the these two guitars generate. So close that a fine ear can't separate the difference between each guitar 100% of the time. Whether you're a Push/Pull fanatic or a believer in the new Zum Hybrid, it may come down to choosing mechanics, tuning versatility, ease of maintenance, manufacturing support and availability.
[This message was edited by Dennis Detweiler on 08 September 2005 at 09:25 PM.]

Steve Dodson · Post by **Steve Dodson** » 8 Sep 2005 10:15 pm

Very well put Dennis.With that being said the choice is easy. ZUMSTEEL All The Way.

Ricky Davis · Post by **Ricky Davis** » 8 Sep 2005 10:16 pm

Yes; that is my Final Answer; because I used all my life-lines on the golf course....ha...
Ricky

Randy Beavers · Post by **Randy Beavers** » 9 Sep 2005 3:50 am

Yep, Emmons on the intro and Zum on the rest of the song.

For the whole project I didn't try to disguise the tone of either guitar so they would be closer to each other. The Emmons has the original pickups which read 14.83k ohms, while the Zum had 17.5k ohms. That's quite a difference that should be distinguishable, and I was surprised it wasn't more of a factor. I left the eq settings the same for recording and didn't try to match them up any closer in the mix. I made my choice of guitar for each song based on what I wanted to play and how I thought it would sound in the track. Songs that I wanted to play single note melodies on the lower strings, I went with the Emmons. That guitar seems to shine there from what I believe are those lighter pickups. Then songs where I wanted to play chord melodies I used the Zum. I hear a fullness with overtones blending together on that guitar I've not heard on any other. Then the C6th intro, that old Emmons has a very mellow and sweet sounding C6th, even with those pickups.

As some of you may have noticed, I used very little reverb. I was trying to get more of a raw vintage tone like Buddy and Jimmy did back in the 60s. That way the steel really sticks out in front more, which should make picking the two guitars even easier. I even made sure to keep the mic placement exactly the same for all the tracks. In my experiments, moving the mic closer to the speaker by 1 inch made a much larger difference in tone than changing guitars.

This was fun even though nobody got all of them right. But 9 out of 12 is respectable. However Ricky and Matt will have to share a "mouse ear" each.

[This message was edited by Randy Beavers on 09 September 2005 at 12:53 PM.]