Professional steel playing

Theresa Galbraith · Post by **Theresa Galbraith** » 30 Jun 2005 6:22 am

Ryan,
If you're serious about a career in music either road, session work, or whatever, I'd say Nashville is where you need to be.
Belmont and MTSU are great schools for teaching music. My daughter goes to MTSU, it's really good!

Great Luck To YOU,
Theresa

Roy Ayres · Post by **Roy Ayres** » 30 Jun 2005 7:29 am

It's a young person's game. Go ahead and enjoy it while you can, because after about 35 the glamour fades and the gigs get further apart. Just have an "ace" up your sleeve and learn some other trade or profession and have it ready when the time comes -- and it does come for 999 out of a thousand.
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Words of wisdom spoken from experience. If you don't beleive it, read my bio here

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[This message was edited by Roy Ayres on 30 June 2005 at 08:31 AM.]

Donny Hinson · Post by **Donny Hinson** » 30 Jun 2005 8:02 am

The latest word I have from Nashville is that some really great players are having a hard time even getting "B" sessions! It seems that the digital revolution has taken (stolen?) a lot of jobs from these players. Steel parts are digitized, rearranged, and then just "pasted in" to get the required country sound. One thing I know is that if they took all the stuff that's already been recorded and digitized it, I doubt they'd need much more for most of what they're producing right now.

Somehow, I doubt there's over a dozen players making what I'd call a "good living" just playing steel. However, should anyone disagree, I wish they'd post a list of the names that they think are doing real well. (Right now, that is.) Could you come up with a dozen names?

I get the impression that the pro's that are doing lots of steel shows depend on these shows for the bulk of their income.

Bob Hoffnar · Post by **Bob Hoffnar** » 30 Jun 2005 10:58 am

Donny,
Please don't justify your delusions about how bad it is playing steel for a living based on how many people want to post there incomes on a internet site. Plenty of guys are doing fine.

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Bob
My Website

Jim Bates · Post by **Jim Bates** » 30 Jun 2005 12:01 pm

I had the same decision facing me about 45 years ago - finish college or hit the road playing with some great bands in western Oklahoma. A young steel player with one of the bands told me he was quitting the 'road' and going back to school to finish his degree and get a 'good job'. He was tired of the 'road'. That influenced my decision - I stayed in school, but played all I could and taught music on weekends to keep in school and to keep my music alive. After graduating in '62, I worked for NASA in Houston for 42 years, retiring last year AND still played all over the Houston area with many fine groups. I will always have my music.

Yes, you can have it both, but the odds are against making a living just being a side-man steel player. Music trends are un-predictable.

My advice, keep music in your life, but get all the education you can in a field you like (it may not be music), and hopefully one that will also pay well.

Good luck.

Thanx,
Jim

Donny Hinson · Post by **Donny Hinson** » 30 Jun 2005 2:36 pm

Ol' reliable...Bob Hoffnar! There you go again, attacking me personally while completely skirting the question I asked. Read again, Bob! I never asked anyone how much they're making.

I simply asked if anyone could name 12 steel players who are making a "good living" just playing steel. I'm not talking about the guys who own a music store, or the guys who are producing sessions and engineering, or doing other "related" vocations, or playing other instruments.

"Just playing steel", that's what I said.

But you insist that "Plenty of guys are doing fine".

Well then, Bob, it oughta be real easy for you to enlighten us then, shouldn't it?

Come on...give it a try!

David Kurrasch · Post by **David Kurrasch** » 30 Jun 2005 7:18 pm

Here in the D/FW area I can think of at least half a dozen steel players who are doing o.k. just playing steel. Myself, I've been a full time musician for the past 12 years, and I live in a nice house, have 2 nice cars in the garage, and a Roth IRA that I started a few years back to have something to retire on. It can be done, but it requires discipline, you have to want it really bad. Most of the musicians I know who live in poverty do so because they are terrible at managing their finances, and they get caught up in drinking, smoking, drugs, gambling, etc. You can't get ahead in this business if you spend half of your weeks wages on your bar tab, which is what a lot of guys do, and then they complain about how hard it is to make it as a musician. If you're willing to play whatever the club owners want to hear, it's not too hard to make around 25-30K per year around here. That might not be considered "doing well" by some, but it's enough to live pretty comfortably in this part of the world. By the way, I'm 34, and a few of the other full time steelers that I know around here are well into their 50s, and still working steady. I'm not saying I'd recommend this to anyone, but it can be done, if you have the desire, and the discipline to work very hard, and stay focused.

Michael Garnett · Post by **Michael Garnett** » 30 Jun 2005 10:23 pm

God Bless You, David. That's a great response, and I think, in a positive, concise way, you hit the nail right on the head. I was also interested to see the post about the "A list" players begging for "B list jobs." I've heard some horror stories of the engineer rolling while the steel picker is just tuning and getting warmed up, then saying, "That's ok, I've got enough." While that might be satisfying to some as a quick way to make some bucks, it's definitely frustrating to a professional musician not to even decide which of their notes go on the finished product. Samplers, drum machines and voice pitch correcters are simply destroying the need for talent in the industry.

That being said, (and not to start another flameup,) I would still encourage anyone looking to get into a career in music to come to Texas, and not to Tennessee. In my most humble opinion, there hasn't been much good come out of Na$$hville since before Garth. I mean absolutely no offense to you folks out there, but as the old song says, "Well, there's Thirteen hundred and fifty two guitar pickers in Nashville." How do any of them survive?!

-MG

Besides, everything's bigger and better in Texas anyway.

Bob Hoffnar · Post by **Bob Hoffnar** » 30 Jun 2005 10:28 pm

The latest word I have from Nashville is that some really great players are having a hard time even getting "B" sessions! It seems that the digital revolution has taken (stolen?) a lot of jobs from these players. Steel parts are digitized, rearranged, and then just "pasted in" to get the required country sound. One thing I know is that if they took all the stuff that's already been recorded and digitized it, I doubt they'd need much more for most of what they're producing right now.

Around here (NYC) the home based digital studios have made it so there is more work for steel players. I get a steady stream of those sessions. Everybody seems to be putting out there own music and bypassing the labels.

Somehow, I doubt there's over a dozen players making what I'd call a "good living" just playing steel. However, should anyone disagree, I wish they'd post a list of the names that they think are doing real well. (Right now, that is.) Could you come up with a dozen names?

NYC is not a steel players city but even here there are a surprizing number of people making a living as primarilly steel players.

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Bob
My Website

David Mason · Post by **David Mason** » 1 Jul 2005 12:40 am

I have been lucky enough to know three "God-zone" musicians in my life, and all three have designed their lives in such a way that they can play with people they like, release CD's of original music and make a decent living without getting caught up in the recording industry grinder or the mentally dangerous enticements of "stardom." One of them teaches piano lessons and writes film scores, one of them owns an independent recording studio and one of them teaches at Berklee and gigs around Boston.

Theresa Galbraith · Post by **Theresa Galbraith** » 1 Jul 2005 3:22 am

I know atleast 12!

Bob Carlucci · Post by **Bob Carlucci** » 1 Jul 2005 4:15 am

A LOT depends on where you live. I used to live in NJ and played in top bands in NJ, NYC,LI.[MANY years ago of course]..Lots of local session work in the city too.. Its a living, but a good college grad with a teachers certificate or engineering degree OR even a a garbage collector for NYC or one of the major suburban areas will do much better than the average "hot" local musician..

You guys can disagree, but for MOST very good musicians it a nominal living.. you can eat, maybe even buy a house but a NYC sanitation worker with some years in is capable of making 100 K with overtime, and teachers across the country start in the mid 30's ,and have summers off, tons of benefits, so many off days during the school year its ridiculous.

Get the education... GOOD skills that people are willing to pay for.. People like music and musicians, but don't NEED music and musicians.. they NEED teachers,doctors,lawyers,AND garbage collectors... bob

Donny Hinson · Post by **Donny Hinson** » 1 Jul 2005 9:38 am

I've goten several e-mails as the result of my posting above. The number 12 that I picked was not capricious, as I had a conversation with a long-time friend and musician a couple of years ago (before Jeff Newman's untimely death), and at that time we came up with 13 steeler's we figured were doing pretty well. Right now, I could think of only 12.

Ryan started this thread asking for guidance as to whether or not he should try to be a full-time steelplayer. I'd imagine there are quite a few steelers out there who are "getting by", but very few who make a really good living. Of course, exactly just what a "good living" is is pretty subjective, and Bob is fortunate enough to be in NYC where some people make a good living selling hot-dogs on the street corner. When you live in a city of over 8 million people, your audiences and the number of venues are pretty substantial. The rest of the country, with the exception of the left-coast SF and LA areas, and Texas, of course, offer limited opportunities. I'm pretty sure that there's only one steeler here in Maryland who's doing well. The rest have a day-job, or a companion who helps keep things on an even keel.

I'd never try to dissuade anyone from playing steel. I've done it myself for over 40 years, and have a lot of fun and made some good money, too. If you're young, not tied down to a family, and are willing to travel, it can be done. Still, I have to be honest with a young newcomer who asks if he can make it as just a steel player. I wouldn't advise postponing it (a career in music), as your biggest asset is your youth. But, as many here have said, you should always have something else to fall back on.

As the old sea-captain used to say...

A successful voyage is determined not by where you started or where you went, but on what you have when you arrive home.

Dave Grafe · Post by **Dave Grafe** » 2 Jul 2005 9:26 am

good on ya donny

Ryan Giese · Post by **Ryan Giese** » 5 Jul 2005 8:40 pm

Thanks again. I still have alot of thinking, practicing and studying to do. This has helped a lot.

Allen Peterson · Post by **Allen Peterson** » 6 Jul 2005 4:39 am

Ryan,
I am a professional geologist and have worked in the oil business for over 30 years. I have BS and MS in geology. Since high school, I have played music in bands. I played in bands all through my college days and was able to suppliment my income when starting out as a geologist by playing music. I have never made much money playing music and usually spend everything I make playing music buying musical equipment, which as you know, isn't cheap.

I chose not to pursue music as a career because I was not good enough to compete. It's a very tight market and only a very few can really make a solid career playing music. I chose geology as a career because I am good enough to compete. I still enjoy music and still play every day. For me, it was the right decision because I have been able to have the things in life that I want and I will be able to retire comfortably. And I really like it. That's the key. My father told me years ago that whatever you do, you better like it because you are going to have to do it a long time.

About twenty-five years ago I asked the same question you have asked to Herb Remington. He told me to stick with geology. I don't know if my playing was that bad and he was trying to be nice, or if he was just giving me some good advise. But I think he recognized that at that time I had four kids to feed and a mortgage, and that I could make a whole bunch more money doing geology than picking in some club five nights a week.

The key to your decision is education and doing what you like, whether it's music or something else. Get your education and be the best you can at whatever you choose and you will be happy.

Allen Peterson

Ray Minich · Post by **Ray Minich** » 6 Jul 2005 6:00 am

It was June of 1985, a Sunday night, I was at Gilleys in Pasadena, just south of Houston, listening to the house band. The steel player was really good. During the break I got to talk to him.
I explained that I really liked his work, that I had spent a little time on the steel, was not very good, but loved the instrument. I grew up with the steel but in 1971 had to make a choice between Mechanical Engineering, or steel playing, and I chose the M.E. road.

I'll never forget his next words...He said I made the right choice.

David Wren · Post by **David Wren** » 6 Jul 2005 6:58 am

Ryan, I think Theresa has a great idea... keep your grades up for the remainder of your high school, and try to get into a college where you can get part time work as a musician... word to the wise don't come to CA... tons of great guys (and gals) making real pretty music, but no money to speak of. If it were me I'd head off for the FW/Dallas area and get a degree in IT technology.... if you know the tech part, you can learn anything related to modern sound recording or production. Best of luck to you.

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Dave Wren
'95Carter S12-E9/B6,7X7; Session500; Hilton Pedal
www.ameechapman.com

John Steele (deceased) · Post by **John Steele (deceased)** » 6 Jul 2005 11:53 am

Playing music is a blessing, because it can be done from so many perspectives and levels.
I decided a long time ago that it made a better weekend diversion than a trade. It's pretty hard to be a full time musician and just do a little geology work on the side, for example.
-John
p.s. It helps if you have your fingers in lots of pies: playing, studio work, teaching, writing, etc.

Allen Peterson · Post by **Allen Peterson** » 6 Jul 2005 12:57 pm

Very well put John. If I had spent as much time playing PSG as I have with geology, I probably would have been able to compete in the music business. Right now I spend about 10 hours a day doing geology and maybe 1 hour playing my guitar.

Still, I think I have more innate ability in the sciences in that I don't have to work as hard to visualize concepts, as I do with music. Music doesn't come as easy to me as the sciences do. That's why I chose the career path I did.

Music is very multi-leveled and you can work at it as hard as you desire and still get a lot of enjoyment out of it. That's why it's a great hobby for me.

Allen Peterson

Keith Cordell · Post by **Keith Cordell** » 6 Jul 2005 1:43 pm

Nashville has to be the WORST place to go for a steeler, unless you are already pro level. Much like LA and guitar players a few years back, the competition for every gig is insane. In other cities you won't have 100 players going after every gig, and with the resurgence of real country music there is beginning to be a demand in more places for players. Taking a hot dog stand to the hot dog factory is just a bad maneuver- and going to school is always a good idea. I have gotten a lot of jobs just because I had a degree; it wasn't a degree that was applicable to the job they wanted me for, just a degree.

Barry Blackwood · Post by **Barry Blackwood** » 6 Jul 2005 4:27 pm

Playing music is the blessing, getting paid is the curse .....