Newer Millenium's

Sidney Malone · Post by **Sidney Malone** » 2 May 2005 11:43 am

I feel very fortunate to have a '05 Millennium and can't imagine it getting any better!! I do believe though that with the folks associated with MSA, they will continue to improve on what I believe to be the finest steel ever made!!

No doubt they could stop with the M3 and be ahead of the game for quite some time, but as has already been said, "the best never rest"!

Winston Street · Post by **Winston Street** » 2 May 2005 12:48 pm

Being a machinist for 35 years, the first thing I look at on a steel is the changer, the undercarriage and generally the quality of machine work that has been put into the instrument. MSA has always been one of the best built/machined guitars on the market. Most all of the steels being manufactured today are good instruments because of evolving computer and machinery technology, but I don't see where MSA has to take a backseat to any of them when it comes to workmanship. I'm not qualified to say anything about tone and sustain since I can't hear it thunder anymore but my theory has always been if it doesn't sound like you want, change the pickup or turn a knob on the amp!!!! As for upgrading, if you aren't always improving you'll get runover by someone who is..

Bobby Boggs · Post by **Bobby Boggs** » 2 May 2005 1:41 pm

Hey if you guys that bought the first Millenniums are happy.I'm happy for you.It's your money after all.However if I had forked $5000 for one and 2 months later they updated it.I'd feel,,,well bad. I guess I'll wait and see if the M-3 pans out............Bobby

bob drawbaugh · Post by **bob drawbaugh** » 2 May 2005 2:14 pm

Bobby with that logic you should still be driving a model T Ford.

David Wright · Post by **David Wright** » 2 May 2005 3:54 pm

Mr Boggs, why wouldn't it pan out?????????

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Donny Hinson · Post by **Donny Hinson** » 2 May 2005 4:08 pm

Bobby, I'm satisfied with the original Millennium. I don't need or even want 13 adjustment points on the pullers, and I actually prefer titanium pull-rods over the newer stainless steel rods. A lot of the new changes were probably "market driven", and I don't feel they're really necessary. (For me, anyway.)

Remember when humbucker pickups came out? Everyone just had to have 'em! Now, many players are switching back to the older single-coil designs.

Go figure.

Ron Randall · Post by **Ron Randall** » 2 May 2005 4:47 pm

Bobby,
I am delighted with the M1 that I have played for two years. I was not dissappointed to learn that MSA was making improvements. I was excited and could not wait until it was ready.
I am now delighted with the M3 which I have had for a month.
Many of the changes are "under the hood". On the outside, they look the same to the casual observer. I appreciate that. There is nothing, IMHO, that renders the M1 obsolete.

Ron

Fred Shannon · Post by **Fred Shannon** » 2 May 2005 5:55 pm

Bobby B: "Was it rushed to market to soon??"

That's a fair question from someone who probably is not too cognizant of how much research, development and engineering went into the first guitar. I, fortunately, WAS aware of most of those steps accomplished during the prototype phase of the horn. Lots of consideration went into making the guitar "player friendly"; the adjustable pedal rods, quick change pickup, light weight and also into the new changer assy, and still making a good sounding axe. I've had my guitar SN 0009 since Feb of the first year. It has been played an average of 3 nights a week (probably at least 9 hours per week). I've never lubricated any part of the guitar. It's never been torn down to move, and in this time frame I have had 4 broken strings. I do change my strings regularly however. BTW only 2 of those strings have been 3rds. I have never had a guitar that stays in tune like this first generation guitar.

Why the improvements? MSA is a business, and that means active commercialism is an absolute necessity to maintain operation . I think MSA is fortunate in having 4 very professional players on the staff, in both the operation and construction phases of the company. I really believe one would be hard pressed to surpass Reece Anderson, Junior Knight, Johnny Cox, and David Wright as players and builders. Kinda' like having the old timer Richard Petty, testing out the NASCAR entry, and making recommendations for improvements. Top these 4 guys off with Kyle and Sonny Bennett, two of the most knowledgeable gents in the steel guitar business, and you have a pretty good team.

Bobby have you had a chance to play any of the Millenniums or the new Lap Steels? Lots of pretty good reviews, especially from Bobbe Seymour on the new SuperSlides.

Good question, and some pretty good answers.
Phred

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"From Truth, Justice is Born"--Quanah Parker-1904

Bobby Boggs · Post by **Bobby Boggs** » 2 May 2005 6:47 pm

I'm not opposed to change at all.But every year?? Think Franklin,No changes to the undercarriage.Emmons Legrande,Modifed the changer,then the bellcranks.ZumSteel.Improved the changer and bell-cranks in late 98.Bruce offers a Hybrid. But you pay extra as you do for the counterforce on the Legrande III.Sho~Bud on the other hand changed their undercarriage ever few years.We know what happened there.

I had full intentions of buying a new MSA.I just don't know how long I need to wait till they decide what really is best.I'm a poor man.I can't buy the ultimate guitar every year.Updating ever year would have to hurt the resale value of last years model.Of course when your in the business to sale new guitars maybe you could care less about resale value. However that can bite you in the A$$.I think one of the reasons Emmons, Franklin, and Zum are so popular with players is,, you know you can get your money back if you decide to try a different color.

I see 90 models Emmons and Zums selling for more than they sold for new. Might be something to think about.But again what do I know.I am surprised the guys that bought the original Millenniums are taking it so well.But most likely they have a lot more money than I.

The point I'm trying to make here.I don't want to spend 6 grand. That's what a dressed out D-10 9&9 with compensators would come to.And six months later my buddy across town pay the same price for one that's supposed to be an improved version. Regards.........bb[This message was edited by Bobby Boggs on 02 May 2005 at 08:10 PM.]

Al Marcus · Post by **Al Marcus** » 2 May 2005 7:34 pm

Personally, I like to see Steel guitar Builders improving their guitars and adding features when needed.

I applaud the steel companies that have made a lighter weight guitar for my aching back.

I also like to see Auto companys making improvements every year to their cars, or adding features.

I see some guitars that don't have adjustable lowering springs, do not have split tuners on all strings, do not have swappable pickups, etc, etc......al

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My Website..... www.cmedic.net/~almarcus/

Bobby Boggs · Post by **Bobby Boggs** » 2 May 2005 8:48 pm

I also like to see Auto companys making improvements every year to their cars, or adding features.

My dad,who's 74 now. Swears cars have gone down hill every year since 1967.

Al, I agree all the features you mentioned + triple raise, triple lower and lower return compensators should be standard equipment on all top of the line PSG's.[This message was edited by Bobby Boggs on 02 May 2005 at 09:49 PM.]

Randy Gilliam · Post by **Randy Gilliam** » 2 May 2005 9:30 pm

If I had Paid 6000.00 For a new MSA And The next day it was obsolete Like Bobby Boggs Said I Would Probably Throw Up Every Time I Had Too Play It.

Fred Shannon · Post by **Fred Shannon** » 2 May 2005 11:16 pm

Good discussion and points well taken, but what is it about the advancement or improvement of an instrument from one year to the next makes the previous year's guitar "Obsolete".

I don't know that the improvements make the guitar sound better than the previous year's. Maybe some added benefits, but I'm kinda' like Donnie Hinson. I, in fact, opted not to make the changes to my first year's model. And it still sounds the same as when I bought it.

Further, I'm used to it and in the time I've had it, it has paid for itself at least 5 times with no further expense other than strings. One would probably have to put strings on any guitar in that time, so realistically, compared to other instruments, it has cost me nothing to run the thing. Just a thought.

Too, it was my money when I bought it and if I'm satisfied, like Bobby said, it's OK really.

But I have no trouble seeing the rationale for MSA to continue improving the instrument to satisfy potential customers. Maybe that's one of the reasons they brought the wooden Legend and the non-pedal guitars out this past year. They've sold a bunch of them. And isn't that the reason they're in business, to sell guitars?
phred

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"From Truth, Justice is Born"--Quanah Parker-1904

Richard Gonzales · Post by **Richard Gonzales** » 3 May 2005 1:43 pm

I am probably the only person who owns a M1 #0001,M2,M3 and I would defy anyone (except team MSA)to tell the difference in physical appearance and tone. I did not buy my guitars for investment, I bought them for enjoyment. One has a special paint,one is black and the other is red and they all have different setups. I really like the M1 due to being the lighter one of the three at #19 lbs.

If I had waited for a new car mfg to stop making changes before I buy, I would still be waiting!
If you want a car or guitar from an investment standpoint, then you buy a collectable which is usally 30 years plus in age.

I love all three guitars even being a year apart from each other and I have to tell you Reece they are really close to being equal. It is kind of comparing a 97,98,99 Corvette, if you like the Corvette they are all nice!
That's all I have to say about that!

bob drawbaugh · Post by **bob drawbaugh** » 3 May 2005 2:24 pm

Richard,3 guitars! That's not right.

Hey I do like the yellow guitar. Cool!

Bobby, you can but the M1 and get the M3 option for free. Now that's a deal.

Richard Gonzales · Post by **Richard Gonzales** » 3 May 2005 2:48 pm

Bob- working 60 hours a week for 45 years gives me the money to spend on my three vices(M1,M2,M3).Appreciate you liking the yellow one, it sure is purtty![This message was edited by Richard Gonzales on 03 May 2005 at 03:51 PM.]

Donny Hinson · Post by **Donny Hinson** » 3 May 2005 7:37 pm

I just noticed that Ernie and CrowBear said some nice things about me...thank you kindly!

I try to be well-informed, it's an alternative to being a good player!

Reece, keep looking! Sooner or later, you'll see me there...somewhere! (Usually behind the Fadal.)

Chris, I downplay my ability because I actually play very little. Mr. Coster and Mr. Gimble can both play circles around me, I just do some "neat stuff from the old days".

We'll get together someday. I'm playing two dates in June. One in East Baltimore and one in King George, VA. (Word has it BC will be watching me for a change at the VA gig.)

Lord Kare Myrberg · Post by **Lord Kare Myrberg** » 4 May 2005 2:02 am

Randy! If I was throwing up everytime I was playing my new Millennium D-10, I would stop playing right away and consult a doctor. Regards, from Kåre (new member in the MSA family).

Randy Gilliam · Post by **Randy Gilliam** » 4 May 2005 2:52 pm

Maybe it is my playing I will call 911 next time it happens. Emmons Lashley Legrande 1998 model 1973 MSA Yep I Love It

Randy Gilliam · Post by **Randy Gilliam** » 4 May 2005 2:56 pm

Maybe its my playing next time I will call 911. Emmons Legrande11 1973 MSA I love it.

Randy Gilliam · Post by **Randy Gilliam** » 4 May 2005 3:01 pm

Okay Maybe it is my playing. Next time I will call 911 Thanks For the help . And welcome too the forum . Randy 1998 Lashley Legrande 11 973 MSA And I love It.Good Luck.

Chris Forbes · Post by **Chris Forbes** » 5 May 2005 3:01 am

Donny, I'll be in East Baltimore this saturday evening. I'll be pickin' for my new boss J.D. Henley and the Stone Broke Band at Little Texas. If you've got nothing better to do than watch paint dry, come on out and be bored by me recycling the same four licks all night!!