Rating proficiency

Jim Cohen · Post by **Jim Cohen** » 20 Nov 2004 8:07 am

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR>Should he be considered a great singer?

YES! Right up there with William Shatner and Leonard Nimoy.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Interesting thread. Donny your quote above begs yet another, related, question. And that is the difference between a "great singer" and a person with a "great voice". I would concede that Dylan does not have a "great voice" by any western cultural norm. (Heck, I'll bet even HE concedes that.) Ah, but is he a "great singer"? This is not quite so obvious a question, because I would maintain (and you might disagree) that one can be a "great singer" even without a "great voice".

I think a great singer has a way of communicating a song, musically, that successfully carries the emotion of the song straight to your heart. Despite not having great "voices" per se, I would entertain the notion that performers like Louis Armstrong (as a singer, not trumpeter), Tom Waits, Joe Cocker, and even Michael Bolton, are "great singers". When they sing, people listen and are moved deeply. Perhaps even in a way that would not be possible if they had great voices.

My own hypothesis is that folks without "great voices" can be such emotionally-successful singers because the listener's psyche subconsciously says, "This guy/gal must really feel this so deeply to give voice to the emotions of this song, even though they (the singer) must know that they don't have a great voice. So I believe them, and find this listening experience very touching and moving."

And that, I believe, is the mark of a "great singer".[This message was edited by Jim Cohen on 20 November 2004 at 08:10 AM.]

Donny Hinson · Post by **Donny Hinson** » 20 Nov 2004 9:42 am

Jim, that's why I have two qualifiers for everyone in music...ability, and style. While it's true that certain voices can add emotion to certain songs (e.g., Johnny Cash's version of "Sunday Morning Coming Down"), the same qualities makes these vocal stylists poor choices for other songs. Indeed, they often become known and famous for one song, or one type of song.

As to your statement..

This guy/gal must really feel this so deeply to give voice to the emotions of this song, even though they (the singer) must know that they don't have a great voice. So I believe them, and find this listening experience very touching and moving."

Well, would that mean I'd have a better chance of becoming a famous steeler, "reaching people on an emotional level and providing a touching and moving experience"...

...if I played out of tune, off meter, with a scratchy volume pedal, and used a cheap amp?

Why wouldn't that work?

Inquiring minds want to know!

Jim Cohen · Post by **Jim Cohen** » 20 Nov 2004 9:55 am

Ah, viva la difference! One of the great mysteries of life is that this only works with the human voice; I don't think it applies to instrumental playing. Do you?

Travis Bernhardt · Post by **Travis Bernhardt** » 20 Nov 2004 3:56 pm

I used to think that Bob Dylan was a terrible singer, until I tried to sing some of his songs, and until I listened to other people singing his songs. It's not just the voice, it's also the delivery.

Also, watching a classically trained singer trying to sing jazz or blues is a real eye opener. They might have a better range, be able to hold a note longer and all that, but it's painful to watch them absolutely mangle the idiom. Likewise a blues singer singing opera or something, and always scooping into notes like a slide player.

True, I wouldn't want Dylan to sing at my daughter's wedding, but mostly because he's overly serious and unromantic/cynical (maybe if he only played "Shelter from the Storm"). I'd call him a great singer, no problem.

-Travis

Mike Bowles · Post by **Mike Bowles** » 20 Nov 2004 4:50 pm

Im still a beginner but there has never been a pro that enjoys playing any more than i do it always seems that everbodys equiptment always seems to sound better than our own although i know my equiptment is ok I have a royal precision sd 10 nv 1000 profex 2 52 tele fender stage 100 fender banjo takamine acoustic so i know my equiptment is good I guess were always looking for that perfect tone and sound

Mike Bowles · Post by **Mike Bowles** » 20 Nov 2004 4:51 pm

Im still a beginner but there has never been a pro that enjoys playing any more than i do it always seems that everbodys equiptment always seems to sound better than our own although i know my equiptment is ok I have a royal precision sd 10 nv 1000 profex 2 52 tele fender stage 100 fender banjo takamine acoustic so i know my equiptment is good I guess were always looking for that perfect tone and sound mullen sd 10

Eric West · Post by **Eric West** » 20 Nov 2004 5:22 pm

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR>Well, would that mean I'd have a better chance of becoming a famous steeler, "reaching people on an emotional level and providing a touching and moving experience"...

...if I played out of tune, off meter, with a scratchy volume pedal, and used a cheap amp?<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

It's worth a try..

Though I admit I haven't had a lot of luck with it.

EJL

Donny Hinson · Post by **Donny Hinson** » 21 Nov 2004 1:29 pm

Eric, you crack me up! (LOL!)