D-10 or U-12 ?

David L. Donald · Post by **David L. Donald** » 1 Oct 2004 1:39 pm

Reece:
<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR>[Universals suggest primarily jazz or a low proficiency!

This is a view which some might take who are uninformed. Misconceptions are to be expected concerning things that have not been explained, explored or understood. I believe the fact to be totally established, that the ability of the player is the deciding factor as to what kind of music is played and how well its played. Any deficiency in this instance concerning the universal, is not the fault of the guitar! <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

It almost seems an oxymoron, to say playing jazz takes LESS proficency to do.

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR>
When playing any kind of music the universal makes no such tuning distinction, whereas a double neck player is faced with a fundamental choice for each song while being physically impaired by not having the ability to make the instant and necessary physical adjustments required by each neck. In contrast a universal player reaches for notes and chords which make up music itself, just as a pianist or guitarist does!
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

The physical choice BEFORE a song starts about which tack to take is quite salient also.
If you can get what you neeed within the same place, why not.

Both VERY interesting observations.
[This message was edited by David L. Donald on 01 October 2004 at 02:42 PM.]

Larry Bell · Post by **Larry Bell** » 1 Oct 2004 6:11 pm

I love not having to write it.
Reece elaborated exactly why I chose the single neck route with more insight than I could muster.

Thanks again for that great essay, Reece. You are and have always been an inspiration to me and a lot of others who chose the E9/B6 or Eb9/Bb6 tuning, based on hearing you play and realizing the power that having it all on one neck is better FOR US than having to think two tunings and be limited by the inherent difference. Combining the functionality within the other tuning is much more musically useful. For SOME of us. To each his own.

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Larry Bell - email: larry@larrybell.org - gigs - Home Page
2003 Fessenden S/D-12 8x8, 1969 Emmons S-12 6x6, 1971 Dobro, Standel and Peavey Amps

Dave Zirbel · Post by **Dave Zirbel** » 2 Oct 2004 1:04 am

I just jumped on the S-12U bandwagon this month and it totally makes sense to me. I'm mostly an E9 player and do a little C6. I think having one neck will force me to learn the swing and jazzy stuff that I love instead of copping out and avoiding the other neck all the time. Mine is set up so when the E's are lowered, the last 4 pedals are the same as a standard C6 minus the first pedal. All the exact same voicings and chords of both necks of a D-10 are on one neck. (I know most of you already know this)
Also, it's 20 pounds lighter than my D-10.

I think this is going to work out for me.

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Dave Zirbel-
Sho-Bud Super Pro, 8 x 5, ZB Custom D-10 8 x 5, S-12U Kline, Dobro Cyclops reissue, 1967 Fender Telecaster, Webb 6-14E, Fender Super Reverb
The Mother Truckers

John Lacey · Post by **John Lacey** » 2 Oct 2004 3:23 am

That's all fine, but how do you TUNE these beasts? (U12).

Pete Burak · Post by **Pete Burak** » 2 Oct 2004 8:13 am

John,
Jeff Newman has an S12U tuning chart on his website.
This is a great reference. http://www.jeffran.com/tuning/tuning.htm

Bobby Lee · Post by **Bobby Lee** » 2 Oct 2004 3:38 pm

I think that the D-10 was designed to play both kinds of music - Country and Western!

Al Marcus · Post by **Al Marcus** » 2 Oct 2004 5:13 pm

Here is my 2 cents worth.

First of all, I think Bobby Lee has the right idea, IF you don't want to give up your D10 and still want those bass strings, then get a D12.

But I would do what Pete suggest, put E9/B6 5 pedal tuning,(Bud Carter has this on his web site)on the bottom neck, then you have the best of both worlds. There are lighter weight guitars available now, so one of those D12's may be lighter than a regular D10.

But I remember Reece had a very potent 7 pedal 5 knee lever, Bb6 tuning that he played the great jazz and also great 9th country , everything all on one 12 string neck.

This is the way of the future in the new Millenium......al

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My Website..... www.cmedic.net/~almarcus/

Travis Bernhardt · Post by **Travis Bernhardt** » 2 Oct 2004 5:38 pm

I think the D-12 makes great sense. I use the 5+5 Universal tuning Al mentions, and while I would recommend it to somebody who wants to get a feel for the Universal, I don't think 5+5 is enough. You get a bare minimum E9 and B6, and there's lots you can do with it, but you're going to have to give up something valuable. You've only got one (arguably) "extra" knee lever after the basics are installed, so you've got to choose between having the E>F# change, the tenth string B>D (not even possible on a dbl. raise/dbl. lower guitar like mine), the G#>G change, or whatever other change you prefer.

The tuning is good at what it does, and I prefer it to the extended E9 that I had before, but personally I'm looking forward to the time when I own a D-12 with all the trimmings.

-Travis