Cma11 Tuning

[Guy Cundell]

Great material, Michael. Beautiful work. There certainly is a lot of potential in this tuning.

I do think, however, you need to find another name for it. It is not that the tuning isn't diatonic. It certainly is, as is Byrd's tuning. But the word "diatonic" is already firmly associated with Byrd's tuning. You could call it Cmaj11 but I don't think that does it justice. I think you need a word that identifies the unique shape of it that is why I suggested C tertian. Not a commonly used term, I'll grant you, but descriptive. The tuning is a C scale in thirds, incomplete, but then so is Byrd's. For a 7 string tuning you could put an A on top and complete the scale. And for an 8 string tuning maybe a Bb on the bottom. I've been scratching my head for a name but that's the best I can suggest.

[Doug Beaumier]

I think Mike Ihde went through this "name issue" with the Leavitt tuning. The open tuning (chord) has so many extensions he decided to simply call it the Leavitt tuning.

Cool tuning, Michael. My ear is still getting used to the high 7th chord with the 7b on top. That's a voicing I don't often work with on lap steel. I liked the video demonstrating the chord positions. The pdf looks good too. I plan to record a quick demo using this tuning in the next couple of days.

[Michael James]

Diatonic really means an eight tone scale. The "C tertian" is looking to be more accurate. Is tertian pronounced like tershen?
Doug, what do you think?

[Michael James]

Looking forward to hearing you play the tuning Doug!

[Doug Beaumier]

Is tertian pronounced like tershen?
Doug, what do you think?

Tertian is a new one on me. I looked it up on Google and it comes from the Latin: tertianus, "of or concerning thirds". It makes sense because the tuning is loaded with thirds, but I don't like the sound of the word. It sounds too much like Turd! And most people, even most musicians don't know what it means. Maybe you should call it C 3rds tuning? By the way, Jerry Byrd does not have lock on C diatonic, in my opinion. I would not shy away from calling it C diatonic just because Jerry had a C diatonic tuning. Besides, his was a 7 string version. Keep in mind that there are many versions of E13 tuning. No one has a lock on that tuning.

[Michael James]

I think it pronounced like this, tershen? please correct me if I'm wrong, grammar is not my forte.

[Paul DiMaggio]

You are right Michael, it is pronounced tur shun middle T is silent emphasis on the 1st syllable.I put a U cause I couldn't find an upside down backwards e on my key board.

[Michael James]

Thanks Paul. What do you think the tuning should be called?

[Paul DiMaggio]

I don't understand how tunings get their names, too confusing for me. You could name it the MJames tuning, you did all the work on it, you should get the credit. The next thing will be how to expand it to a 8 string tuning. Putting the A on the bottom to get the relative minor would be the easiest,but where would you put the other C? With the A&C included that would quell any argument about it being diatonic.

[Michael James]

I only own six string lap steels, so I can't really experiment with it. If you added a high A you would get a full Bmi7(b5) chord on the top 4 strings. The Bmi7(b5) is a great substitution for G7, G9 or G7/B and Dmi6. I would have to map it to see what slant chords you could get.

[Doug Beaumier]

You put a lot of work into that pdf with the chord positions, slants, single note scale patterns, etc. It looks good. Very clear and concise.

[Michael James]

Thanks Doug!

[Randy Reeves]

Mike James is an amazing musician. I met him about two years ago when he answered an ad for a bass player for my old guy rock band. I didn't know much about him, but he played beautiful bass. It wasn't long when I learned that Mike is an accomplished jazz guitar player.

http://www.michaeljames.info/

I have always wanted to bring my lap steel into the bands play list and did with Mercury Blues ( E major tuning).
I play several tunings in the band. I have a telecaster tuned open G like Keith Richards. I raise the low 5th string from D to A and I have Neil Young's tuning for Cinnamon Girl.
Mike was impressed that I had so many tunings.
he became curious about the C6 tuning I use for the great steel song, "Sleepwalk". (I am sooo happy that the band plays this one).
I lent Mike a lap steel tuned to C6; he wanted to mess around with it. I showed him how to hold a bar and damp the strings behind the bar. that was all.
a few days latter the emails started coming in. Mike had altered the tuning and had all these chords etc.

so much talent. I hardly understand theory, but I took hold of this tuning and discovered how much the tuning offers.
I play a nice "Sleepwalk" on it. and some classic country. they sound all right.
But Sleepwalk works really well.

Mike and I meet up every Thursday to work out songs. I comp and he flys all over the neck. Then he comps for me, but I still need to learn the fretboard; my licks are more by ear yet.

I post this to offer some background information.

Mike James has not played a lap steel until just a few week ago. what a talent. my band is so grateful for this intelligent and generous player.

sorry Mike if I embarassed you.

[Michael James]

Hey Randy, Your too kind.
Thanks for the encouragement!
See you Thursday at my house.

[Michael James]

I mapped out the notes for an 8 string. If I had an 8 string lap I would tune it the 1st and 8th strings to "A".
Here is what I found interesting.
Straight bar gives you mi7 on 8765 and 6 chord on 876. Forward slant root 8, strings 876, is a 6 Chord.
Back slant root 6 using string 876 is a 6 chord.
Straight bar 1234 is a mi7(b5)and string 123 is a 6 chord.
Forward slant string 123 is a 6 chord.
Back slant, string 123 is a root 1, is a 6 chord.

If you play F6 on on string 876 root 7, you can back slant to a G6 chord, root 6. This would be great for a I, IV, V in the key of C. pedal bending for the Iv to the V chord.

With all these 6 chords this tuning must sound awesome?

Also with this tuning the name "C Diatonic" makes perfect sense to me. Anyone have a recommendation on an affordable 8 string lap steel?

[Michael James]

I down tuned the low 4 strings on my six string steel to ACEG. The straight bar Ami7/C6 sounds ok, but the slant chords are too muddy. If I had an 8 string I might tune the low string to an F so I could get and F5/F power chord strings 87, and an Fmaj7 strings 876, and an Fmaj9 strings 8765.
I'm sure the high "A" sounds very nice since it's a higher string.
I was also thinking about adding two higher strings? CEGBDFAC? This would give me another major chords and another minor chord. F, Dmi and Dmi7.

[Jay Fagerlie]

Tune it up to an A??? and then up farther to a C?

like the C that's at the 8th fret on string 1 of a guitar?

What are your strings made out of?!?!?!

I could maybe get a G...but an "A"?....I think I'd snap it first....

I have the back neck on my Maggie 8 string I'm going to put this tuning on Michael- it looks like it has lots of possibilities.
Thanks for all the effort this took- I for one really appreciate it- I'm sure lots of others do too.

Jay

[Michael James]

Hi Jay, You are correct. I would have to get some pretty light strings. Here is what I would try if I had an 8 string steel. Any suggestion on an affordable 8 string with no more than a 23" scale?

Daddario Plain Steel and Chromes

1C-Plain Steel .09
2A-Plain Steel .011
3F-Plain Steel .013
4D-Plain Steel .015
5B-Plain Steel .019
6G-Flat Wound .024
7E-Flat Wound .028
8C-Flat Wound .035

[Michael James]

And Thank you for the encouragement!

[Michael James]

I have a roland guitar synth pickup on one of my six string laps. With the synth I can transpose the instrument up or down without changing the actual tuning. What I did was tune it to GBDFAC through the synth. It worked very well, and I found some wonderful pedal bends like [Dmi to D6] and another I to IV chord pedal bend. Strings 123 back slant 7th chord which will bend V7 to I and IV Forward slant. "New move bending from back slant to forward slant", and strings 234 Back slat 6 chord that will pedal bend IV to I. There is probably more but this was enough to convince me that this is how i would tune an 8 string lap steel. (Low to High) CEGBDFAC

[Doug Beaumier]

edit

[Michael James]

Hey Doug. I added your video to my youtube channel.

http://www.youtube.com/channel/UCszpxKAOS-P8XMrHSAvE4AQ

Click on "Playlists" to see it listed.

[Doug Beaumier]

I think your Playlist is only visible to you, unless your specify that others can view them. I don't see any Playlist link on your site. Also, my demo video is "unlisted" so it does not appear on my list of videos, so it may or may not show on your playlist even if you make your playlist visible to others.

[Michael James]

Ok, Thanks for the heads up.

[Fred Bova]

Check out my YouTube post
[ September song tuning demo ]
It is my 6 string version of my 8 string "G Hexatonic" tuning.
Very close to the " C Diatonic" posted here , except with a f# on the 1st string.
I've been playing this for a number of years now, and It fits me well.




Played on only strings 2-6

6 String Dobro or Lap Steel

Pitch = String Gauge

f # = .010
d = .013
b = .016
G = .020 Plain
E = .024 Wound
C = .028 Wound

Strings Groupings / Basic Chords

4,3,2 = G
5,4,3 = Em / G6
6,5,4 = C
3,2,1 = Bm / D6

4,3,2,1 = G Maj7
5,4,3,2 = Em7 / G6
6,5,4,3 = C Maj7