Zoom R16...now part of the fam...my review...

Tony Prior · Post by **Tony Prior** » 11 Mar 2011 3:06 am

Rich, using a small pre-amp is always a great idea,

Don't get wrapped up in the input signal thing, the R16 inputs are similar to ALL recorders, the unit has a feature set that is very flexible, that's what you should be focusing on, get the preamp, record tracks and be done with it.

Recording out of an amp such as the 112 is a different beast all together , historically line outs may not be matched with the inputs you are feeding, don't diss the R16, it may be the 112 ! You did the right thing using a preamp. It kinda acts like a direct box.

Buy that R16, record your CD, make a million !

Rick, connecting sub mixer outs ? Generally these signals are meant to drive power amps, again, recorder inputs such as the R16 , are consistent with ALL recorders,if the signal is too strong you will have to match it to the recorder. You are going to have to learn what the signal level is coming out of the bd. that's the issue, not the R16. Remember, inputs to recorders are MIC levels or HI Z for guitars and such...

good luck

t

Larry Haas · Post by **Larry Haas** » 11 Mar 2011 5:07 am

Hey Tony
I want to try cakewalk/sonar but don't know which one they offer to use.
I have Vista, XP-pro, Windows 7 computers and can use either one.
I am very new to using this software for my personal use and am very confused about which one.
I have messed a little with Audacity but nothing to brag about. Also Reaper but it seemed a little over my head to understand.
I have a Boss BR-532 that I am learning to use and everything so far is making my head spin.

I guess I am asking a lot but you seem to know sonar and my head does get a bit foggy from all this info that is out there.
I have a very hard time with spec's trying to figure out what I need with what I have to work with and what I want to do with it.

Any advice would be appreciated.

By the way, are you going to the get-together in Kannapolis? If so, I hope to meet you there.

Thanks
Richard

Tony Prior · Post by **Tony Prior** » 11 Mar 2011 5:47 am

Hey Richard, gonna try to make Kannapolis...hope to meet you as well.

Cakewalk Sonar, I like it but I do find it funky with editing. I have version 7 and 8.

Pro Tools 8 , I am now on this platform and like it best so far. The recording process and set up is very similar to Sonar but the editing makes more sense to me, I find it much more intuitive. Of course I do have a bunch recording exposure with all sorts of gadgets behind me which I brought forward.

I would work with the Boss unit until you are real comfortable with recording and getting some reasonable results before going into a DAW platform.

DAW's all sound great at inception but the reality is they are time hogs on the learning curve and understanding the big picture in front of you if you are not familiar with the total process and dialog.

Not much help here I guess but honest ! I still feel stand alone 4 or 8 track workstations are the best platform to use when jumping in to home , self engineered recording.

I run Sonar and Pro Tools on Win XP with 3.5 gig of ram. No issues with Pro Tools but I have qwirks with Sonar doing weird stuff every so often. I run Pro Tools M Powered with a PCI MAudio card.

t

Larry Haas · Post by **Larry Haas** » 11 Mar 2011 6:30 am

Thanks Tony for the info.
I bought the Boss recorder last year and let it sit beside me turned off. I have been learning the steel with the help of a friend that lives in Hickory. He has been playing for 30 years and is showing me a lot. Now I want to start recording some, just for myself, to see what I sound like and what I need to improve on. So far it has helped me hear what I sound like as far as timing and following with a backing CD. I have found that listening to yourself by playing it back and hearing the mistakes has improved my playing somewhat better. I have other instruments that I am starting to add to tracks and it is starting to be a lot of fun. I surely have a long way to go with the steel but I seem to learn something new or better everytime I sit down to it.

There have been times that I felt like taking a chain saw to the steel but I am so stubborn that it passes with leaving it alone for a little bit. I'll look at it and tell myself that it is not going to defeat me and then sit down and try a different way.
So far the chain saw hasn't been taken out yet.HAHA.

Look forward to meeting you if you go and thanks for the help and advice.

Richard

Rick Schacter · Post by **Rick Schacter** » 11 Mar 2011 8:51 am

Tony Prior wrote:

Rick, connecting sub mixer outs ?

Tony,
I would like to use this for a live recording and was hoping to use the sub outs from the mixer to send to the inputs of the R16.

From what you said, I guess it doesn't seem to be a problem.
Thanks for your reply.

Rick

Richard Durrer · Post by **Richard Durrer** » 11 Mar 2011 4:41 pm

Well, here is an update on my R16. I actually did buy the unit. Then I recorded 9 vocal tracks for a CD for a friend using a condenser mic into the R16 into Reaper. Did all the mixing and mastering with Reaper. Seemed to do the job very well. I also did some test recording with me and my Carter with the SM57 into a Behringer Tube-pre into the R16. That combination seemed to be the answer with the gain problems of the SM57. So, I think I am a happy camper. Now I just need more Carter time instead of recording time on projects. Rich.

Richard Durrer · Post by **Richard Durrer** » 12 Mar 2011 6:24 pm

I have just found another source of information for the R16. Kevin Selby at http://kevinselby.com/zoom/zoom-r16-demo-project has put together a 16 track demo project completely on the R16. Very detailed documentation with mp3 files of his tracks and mastering with a PDf file describing each track. As well he has detailed screen shots and discussion on using Cubase LE4 with the R16. Look under ZOOM on his home page for the Cubase stuff. Rich.

Rick Schacter · Post by **Rick Schacter** » 17 Mar 2011 6:58 pm

I just had a birthday and I ordered one of these for my birthday present.
It finally arrived and I spent yesterday experimenting with this thing.

First, the subs on my Behringer board were too noisy, so I couldn't use the R16 using the subs...oh well.
Instead I connected the R16 to the inserts on my board and had luck with that.
Also, I was able to use a thumb drive to transfer tracks to my computer and edit the tracks using Sonar. It was EASY.
This thing is a bargain and it sounds great, IMO.
A 16 track recorder for under $400!
Geez, I can remember paying around $3,000 for a Blackface Adat that only recorded 8 tracks and we all thought that was a bargain in it's day.
It didn't have any of the bells and whistles that the R16 does either.
I'm happy.

Rick

Rick Schacter · Post by **Rick Schacter** » 22 Mar 2011 1:51 pm

OK, I might have found a bug in this thing.
Is anybody else having trouble with auto punch?

Sometimes I can't hear what was previously recorded before the punch in point.
I ffw to the place where I'd like to punch in, arm the track to record, push the auto punch button where I'd like to punch in (auto punch light blinking).
Then forward to the place that I'd like to punch out and push auto punch again (auto punch light stays on).

When I try a practice run by just pushing play, it works great. I can hear what was previously recorded, then it goes silent in the section that I'd like to re-record.
But when I rewind back to where I'd like to begin and push the record and play button, sometimes I can't hear what was previously recorded and sometimes I can.

Regardless of whether I can hear the previously recorded track or not, the unit always records at the punch in point. So, maybe I can just work with it as it is. I dunno.

Anyone else have this experience?
Anything that I might have overlooked?

Thanks,

Rick

Clete Ritta · Post by **Clete Ritta** » 22 Mar 2011 8:42 pm

Rick,

You are correct. I just did a test to confirm your results.
Playback monitoring works correctly during playback (rehearsal).
There are instances where it does not function during overdubbing.

Rick Schacter wrote:...Sometimes I can't hear what was previously recorded before the punch in point...sometimes I can't hear what was previously recorded and sometimes I can...

When recording, you hear only what is being monitored on other playback tracks. Once record is pressed while in AutoPunch I/O mode, the recording track is muted regardless of whether it is before or after the punch in point.

This is an obstacle if you are recording and playing, especially if it is the only track recorded. The only workaround I can think of is to punch erase the track using your auto punch points, then duplicate the track for playback only, then erasing the copy after a successful overdub.

Otherwise, get a friend to hit record just before the punch in point, and let the zoom punch in and out automatically.

Since there is no footpedal or other remote method of going into record, which would be a nice feature for the home recordist, perhaps Zoom will incorporate more consistent playback monitoring during auto punch in future models!
Edited with additional notes:
I found that using three marker points works well.
Give a few seconds preroll, punch in and out points.
Sometimes the metronome is out of sync initially if you have countoff on.
Pressing record first, then play, with countoff on works for me.
Pressing play then record does not always yield proper playback monitoring.

Clete

Tony Prior · Post by **Tony Prior** » 23 Mar 2011 12:51 am

here's a link on the Zoom R16 forum, probably started by you guys !

http://www.2090.org/zoom/bbs/viewtopic.php?f=17&t=16319

It appears that it IS supposed to function properly during auto punch, which I have never attempted to use. The R16/R24 do have a few odd procedural things going on, different than other units.

Lets us know how you make out here...

t

Rick Schacter · Post by **Rick Schacter** » 23 Mar 2011 7:30 am

Yep, that was me who started that thread.
I was hoping someone here might have some advice about the auto punch feature. Oh well.

I was given a phone number for Zoom tech. support, but I was hoping to solve this issue through forums and looking through FAQ's before calling.

I guess I'll give Zoom a call today.
I'll let you know how it turns out.
Wish me luck.

Thanks for your input.

Rick

Tony Prior · Post by **Tony Prior** » 23 Mar 2011 8:23 am

Rick, I use my R16 in conjunction with Pro Tools so I never got as deep as you are. I mostly record a few tracks and send them into the DAW...I may fool with the auto punch thing, now I am curious.

Now, you wanna use an extremely kool auto punch function...PT-8

You set the start and stop points

record over and over again until you feel you got it right .PT labels and saves each take...automatically , endlessly...

and should you want to, you can use parts of each auto punch ! Piece them all together..even one note at a time ! Heck half a note at a time !

overkill at it's best but you get the point...

t

Rick Schacter · Post by **Rick Schacter** » 23 Mar 2011 2:43 pm

Tony Prior wrote:
Now, you wanna use an extremely kool auto punch function...PT-8

You set the start and stop points

record over and over again until you feel you got it right .PT labels and saves each take...automatically , endlessly...

and should you want to, you can use parts of each auto punch ! Piece them all together..even one note at a time ! Heck half a note at a time !

overkill at it's best but you get the point...

t

Okay, that does sound really cool.
I called Samson tech. support earlier and they said that they are going to try and duplicate the auto punch senario that I described and get back with me.

I'm not so sure this is a deal breaker for the R16 as far as I'm concerned.
It seems if I can hear the other tracks that I've previously recorded, and it records at the punch in point on the track section that I'd like to re-record, I guess I can make it work for me.

So far I like the way Sonar handles auto punch better then the R16, but what the heck...a stand alone 16 track recorder for under $400.
Like I said earlier, the Adat cost me around $3,000 and it sure did not have auto punch. It only recorded 8 tracks too.

I really like being able to transfer my tracks into Sonar and edit them. I also love how portable this thing is and how it can run on 6AA batteries. Very cool.

I'll let you know what the techs find out when they get back with me.

Rick

Clete Ritta · Post by **Clete Ritta** » 23 Mar 2011 3:50 pm

Rick,
Good news.
I easily duplicated your problem on my R16.
This simple matter is that when you press play first, and then record, you run the risk of losing playback monitoring.
As long as you set a pre roll marker of a few seconds, and set in and out markers, and press record first, then play, it works every time.
Page 27 in the manual mentions pressing record, then play as well.
I used a Count in (Special), but you may not have to.
It works as it should

Hope this helps.

Clete

Rick Schacter · Post by **Rick Schacter** » 24 Mar 2011 8:42 am

Clete Ritta wrote:Rick,
press record first, then play, it works every time.

Clete

Clete,

Now that I think about it, I've been pressing play and record at the same time.
I'm going to give your suggestion a try first thing this afternoon.

Thank you.

Rick

Rick Schacter · Post by **Rick Schacter** » 24 Mar 2011 11:14 am

It works!

Clete, I got a chance to try out what you suggested for auto punch and as you said, if you press record first then press play, it works every time.

I guess I was use to hitting play and record simultaneously from working with reel to reel and Adat recorders.

I didn't realize this thing was that finicky.

What's cool about this though, is that you can either hear what was previously recorded, or if for whatever reason you might be distracted by what was previously recorded, you can still use auto punch without hearing what was recorded before the punch in point.

Clete, thanks for figuring this out, and Tony, thanks for bringing this handy little device to my attention with this thread. Awsome!

Rick

Tony Prior · Post by **Tony Prior** » 24 Mar 2011 11:37 am

Rick, send $10 to Clete !

There are so many features crammed into these plastic devices these days, who can figure how or why they came up with some of the procedures. Glad it worked out, glad Clete figured it out !Better him than me !

I probably would have overlooked the play/record button thing

Great units these R16/R24's...

t

Clete Ritta · Post by **Clete Ritta** » 24 Mar 2011 6:36 pm

No charge!

Any funds should go to b0b.
I have already gleaned way more than $10 of valuable info here.
Membership has paid for itself many times over.

Hey I think the R16 is a great portable recorder.
I use it most often for live band recording at shows or rehearsals.
Usually just two channel, most often just the internal mics,
but sometimes with mic overheads using the phantom power channels.
It really does have a ton of cool features for home recording.
Im just now trying out the guitar effects. I am impressed!
Tip of the iceburg in this thing though.

I did try tracking drums at home with all 8 channels, then transferring into Logic for the usual gating, eq, compression, reverb etc. with very impressive results.
The beauty is you dont need to worry about anything but input signal level when tracking on the R16, there is only a trim knob, a fader and a meter. So simple.
Im going to try more with the built in metronome in headphones and see how well it syncs with the clock in my G5.

After reading Ricks post I figured Id try and confirm if it was a possible glitch.
I had not yet used the autopunch on it either.
I must have immediately pressed play and then record too.

I was a bit dumbfounded at first that such an obvious error would exist in a brand new Zoom product.

Determined to make it behave in a functional manner (monitoring playback before punch in), I resorted to the manual

So simple, it could have gotten lost in translation.
That happens a lot with Japanese to English.
I was getting depressed, but as it turns out, it makes a difference which button is depressed first.

At least its not me getting depressed first now.

Done rehearsing.
Okay I pressed record, now I am going to play!

Clete

Rick Schacter · Post by **Rick Schacter** » 25 Mar 2011 8:10 am

Clete Ritta wrote:
I did try tracking drums at home with all 8 channels, then transferring into Logic for the usual gating, eq, compression, reverb etc. with very impressive results.

Clete

This is the reason I wanted to try the R16.
It's so nice to be able to set this thing up on a TV dinner table by my drum set, plug mics in, check record levels and go.

It's easy as pie to transfer tracks from the R16 to my computer to edit them too, and the metronome feature is great for practice as well as tracking, IMO.

Clete, someone at Samson should give you a job offer!

I called them back yesterday to let them know what you had found. They were stumped beore I called them back. Now they know how to use the auto punch feature.

Lastly, I'm definitely gonna make a donation to B0b.
I've received a heck of a lot more then $10 worth of info. from this forum.

Thanks again.

Rick

The Steel Guitar Forum

Zoom R16...now part of the fam...my review...

Finally Got One Of These

Possible Bug?

Thanks Clete