Singers breaking time

[Charles Davidson]

Ray Qualls, when you mentioned sounding like a billy goat,the first to cross me mind,Toby K. YOU BETCHA,DYK?BC.

[ray qualls]

Yep Charlie, he's baaaaaaaaaaaaaad!

[Dave Mudgett]

I'm with Cal on this 100%. In the situation of a front-singer + backup band, the backup band's job is to complement the singer, whatever it takes. Of course, if one can help bring them in line with a 'regular' song pattern, great. But if that means "going with them whatever way they want to go", I try to go with them. I've definitely worked with singers who had, shall we say, an "interesting" sense of a song or timing. This is actually not all that uncommon with (especially older) blues (and I guess country) singers.

The best example I can think of is blues singer Jimmy Reed's session backup bands. Jimmy just came in and out wherever and whenever he pleased, and you could always tell when some good musicians were working with him - they followed him (seemingly) effortlessly. And I beg to differ that this is garbage - those Jimmy Reed recordings are great precisely because some really good musicians could hold it together when he was having trouble doing just that.

Now, I realize, a lot of critter club stand-ins are hardly Jimmy Reed. But I've run into some pretty good diamonds-in-the-rough out there over the years. I'd rather work with these kind of people than any fake-nasal auto-tuned glitzed out star-wannabee.

My take.

[Bill Mayville]

What ever a singer is doing wrong to make the band sound bad,we had a treat for the singer.
We would all know what to do.We go up one-half step.
The singer sounds so bad ,they want to get off the stage ,like right now.
Bill

[John Steele (deceased)]

I did a session last year for a local politician who fancies himself a singer, and decided to record a cd of classics as a fundraiser. His pitch was fine, but his meter was awful.
Of course, those problems were easily dealt with in the studio. Luckily all the studio players were available when the announcement came about the CD Release Party. We all arrived with the same concern on our minds: The studio is one thing, but this is live, and this guy's sense of time in non-existent.
After a quick huddle, we designated the bass player as the bandleader with one very important responsibility: If the singer got off the rails, it was his call as to whether or not to stay the course, or jump the time and follow the singer. Sometimes the singer came back into time, sometimes he didn't. We'd follow the bassist.
Anyway, we got through it, and the bass player had the respect of every guy in the band for taking on the job and doing it so well.

I've also met a couple of musicians who, after going through one verse or chorus with an unfamiliar, timeless singer, somehow manage to remember which measures they are likely to put 5 beats in the next time around, and nail it. Quite remarkable.

- John

[Clete Ritta]

I agree with Cal too on following the singer for better or worse. At least on tempo, as long as the drums and bass can turn it around together it wont be a complete train wreck. Pitch is a little different. Is the singer modulating up on purpose or just cant hear? If everybody makes the same mistake together with the singer, no one in the audience may be aware that it was even made.

LVD ran a tight ship huh? At least it was spelled out ahead of time so you knew what you should prepare for.

...Leroy Van Dyke has a quite extensive job description. http://steelguitarmadness.com/insanity/?p=603

"Drivers will observe speed limits. If a ticket is issued, the driver owns it, unless he has been instructed by LVD to exceed posted speed limits."

Who pays the insurance surcharge here?


Clete

[Alan Tanner]

I think karaoke has ruined some folks who might have otherwise been pretty good singers. Singing with a live band is way different than singing to a recording in a live situation. At our local opry type show, we occasionally get someone who wants to sing. We give them a tryout in the backroom, and most of the time, everything is fine. But sometimes we run into a "performer" who sounds good by themselves, but just cant seem to get with it on stage. Stage fright probably enters in there too. Walking out on a stage with a couple hundred folks focused on YOU is certainly different than singing to a sound trak in some bar where everyone is tanked up. My favorites are the ones that announce "I wanna do a song that I wrote on the way to the show tonight". Great. We have one feller who has an extensive bluegrass background. He is always trying to do some old 5o's do wop, or big band thing. Ever try to play Begin the Beguine in bluegrass 2/4 at about 3 times the correct speed? Someone made a comment once...just because you know the words, don't mean you can sing the song. I have also been on the receiving end of the favorite barb after a singer screws up a song "well, (stamping foot), I guess the band DIDNT know that song". To which I reply...."now do one YOU know"......if a singer jumps, I always try to jump too to keep collateral damage to a minimum. The least bad (not the better) it sounds, the better the performance will go over. As has been commented, I feel that is my job as a sideman too.

[Clete Ritta]

...Singing with a live band is way different than singing to a recording in a live situation...

Unfortunately, even the big pop artists are singing to track these days too.
Its more about the song and dance routine thanks to MTV.
Glorified karaoke IMO.

Clete

[Alan Tanner]

yer right...and folks are paying BIG bucks to go see them, and dont even realize that its either lip sync or tracks.....btw...sure like yer town. My inlaws have lived there for years and I enjoy every visit...well...maybe not with the inlaws, but there are plenty of escape routes in San Antonio...

[Leon Grizzard]

I agree it can be annoyng, although it is kind of fun or a feeling of accomplishment, to play with a singer who breaks time and be able to adjust and synch back on his/her time. I like the story about Jimmie Rogers recording in New York City, and telling the musicians: "Now boys, you're here to play with me; I'm not here to sing with you."

[Scott Shewbridge]

John Prine adds measures to verses, even on recordings. Paradise is a real good example and one that is widely covered. Solos are all 4 measure phrases, but the verses and choruses have different numbers of 5 measure phrases, intermittently changing, seemingly with no obvious "compositional" reason.

I like doing this song solo, but when I do it at jams, even if I do it exactly as Prine recorded it, one or two people will get that funny "knowing" smile on their face, cause I screwed up. If I don't do it exactly like Prine recorded it, one of the "Old Timey" music "Nazis" (very similar to soup nazis) will eviscerate me.

Either way, someone is certain the singer is an idiot. Granted, sometimes they are right, but not always.

[Les Anderson]

Could this be why the better bands insist on rehearsals before a new singer sets in?

[Clete Ritta]

I've played guitar, bass and piano with lots of different folks on songs on that I really didnt know. I just listen to the intro and then comp along and add what I can when appropriate, hopefully when the singer looks at you and says, Take it away/home/to the bridge/for a ride wherever. I'm learning how to do this on the steel guitar. A good singer uses body language like a conductor and leads the band. You just have to have good eye contact with the group as well, especially on endings

Clete