C6 for Dummies (guitarists)

[Brad Bechtel]

That's a very good set of ideas, Mike. Thanks for sharing.

Denny Turner's set of C6th lessons on his web site are very useful for getting deeper into this tuning.

[Twayn Williams]

I play in B6 (1/2 step below C6) because it puts the root of the straight bar major chord on the 2nd string (B) which allows a 30+ year guitar brain to be able to find the major chords with NO effort.

Major chord/Relative Minor:

C/Am = fret 1
D/Bm = fret 3
E/C#m = fret 5
F/Dm = fret 6
G/Em = fret 8
A/F#m = fret 10
B/G#m = fret 12 (and open)

[Mike Neer]

Twayn, you can't tell me you're not missing that E string.

[Keith Hamm]

Guitar brain-thats an oxymoron! It's easier for me to see the guitar shapes as well. I started with bottleneck slide tuned up to make the strings tight, E and A instead of the more common D and G. On a 8-string guitar, I still see those shapes with the sixth note, or flatted 7th note added. I also use an E13th with the root on top for that reason. If I use six strings its more important for my brain (whats left of it) to have the low root in place, so I prefer that on a six string. In this case it doesnt matter if its C,D or B cause everything is thing is in the wrong place. To really confuse things, if I am reading music, I read in G (mainly the g,b,and d strings) while playing in A and after getting the notes I will transpose it to the proper key.

[Twayn Williams]

Twayn, you can't tell me you're not missing that E string.

I did at first, but not anymore! The high string on the 6th tuning doesn't tell me what the chord is (i.e. it's not the root of the straight bar major chord) so knowing the notes on that string just gets in the way.

The advantage I found with B6 over C6 is that I really don't automatically know the notes EXCEPT on the high B string. This allows me to find the patterns in the 6th tuning without having my 30+ years of standard 6-string getting in the way. I solo with chords and intervals on steel NOT scales. It's made a huge difference in how I play.

YMMV

[Andy Volk]

I followed the amateur version of your pro-player path, Mike, Played guitar for 17 years before I ever touched a steel. I've been playing steel for 20 yeas now and I can still play rings around my steel-playing self on a standard guitar. Every time I try to walk away from the steel it pulls me back ,,, the crack cocaine of the string instrument world! I think having a guitaristic way of thinking can be a bit of a detriment in some ways.

[Mike Neer]

...I think having a guitaristic way of thinking can be a bit of a detriment in some ways.

Andy, that's exactly my point of this whole thread. I've spent about 4 years of the 6 or so years that I've been playing steel just trying to shake that thinking. Very frustrating. These days, I only pull my guitars out of their cases when I need to. I have my Tele in my hands now because I'm doing a recording session tonight, but other than that, I just play my steels. I finally feel like I have it all compartmentalized.

It doesn't matter if one tunes to C6 or A6 or G6, etc., but the bottom line is that it is very helpful in your indoctrination if you spend a good amount of time learning the classic tunings before you try to reinvent the instrument. I think you, like I, will find that having a solid foundation on the instrument helps you to move forward, not hinders you.

The best thing after all this is that I didn't have to sacrifice my music sensibilities. I love guitar music: from complex to simple, from John Scofield, Mike Stern, Allan Holdsworth, Pat Metheny to Jeff Beck--all of it. Now I am working towards bringing my steel playing up to snuff with all that music I love to play without having to compromise and with the mindset of a steel player. I'm trying my best, anyway.

[Mike Neer]

Bumping up an old thread for the newcomers. We can continue the discussion if anyone likes, as I've learned a little more since then.

[Steve Ahola]

Much of what I play on lap steel is based on intervals- the same intervals I'd use with regular guitar, but with a different texture because I am not fretting the notes but using a slide. I am not trying to play lap steel like I play guitar, but to use a phrase Mike mentioned I try to play it with the same musical sensibilities.

For me the most important interval for harmonizing phrases is the 6th, both minor (m6: 8 frets) and major (M6: 9 frets). You can think of it as an inverted third; from a major 3rd to the octave of the root is a minor 6th and from a minor 3rd to the octave of the root is a major 3rd.

With open E tuning there is a minor 6th (m6) from the 1st to the 3th string and a major 6th (M6) from the 3rd to the 5th string. IMO not a lot that you can do with that.

However with C6th tuning you have major 6th intervals (M6) between the 1st & 4th and 3rd & 6th strings, and a minor 6th interval (m6) between the 2nd and 5th strings. In other words whenever you skip 2 strings you have a 6th, major for the two outside grips and minor for the inside grip.

By skipping 2 strings it makes adding slants to the intervals much easier to play (and keep in tune!) With the minor 6th between the 2nd and 5th strings, a forward slant of 1 fret will give you the major 6th interval and a reverse slant of 1 fret will give you a perfect 5th (P5). (BTW the minor 6th is also an augmented 5th.) A forward slant of 2 frets will give you the minor 7th interval.

With the major 6th between the 1st & 4th and 3rd & 6th strings, a reverse slant of 1 fret will give you the minor 6th (or augmented 5th). A reverse slant of 2 frets will give you a perfect 5th. A forward slant of 1 fret will give you the minor 7th (AKA b7) and forward slant of 2 frets will give you the major 7th.

Yes, there is a lot that you can do with C6 tuning if you skip 2 strings. Once you have those 2 strings down you can see what other strings might harmonize with them, as chord tones or scale tones. (I think it is more a matter of learning which notes are wrong (and to be avoided) rather than which notes are right.) Just my own thoughts... YMMV

Steve Ahola

P.S. Mike might have covered this elsewhere but I think it is important to learn how to play the 6ths (and other intervals) up and down the fretboard following the diatonic scale (for starters- extra credit points for learning the intervals for other scales. )

Code: Select all

I   M6  
II  M6
III m6
IV  M6
V   M6
VI  m6
VII m6

[Jason Schofield]

I was originally trying so hard to incorporate my 27 years of 6 string playing onto the C6 with little success. You are so right in saying you have to literally throw all that out and start with a clean slate. I'm really digging into the C6 tuning now and it's coming together faster than I expected. When my step-father passed away he left me his single neck E9 pedal steel. I practiced it for a year only to get very mediocre at best..haha.. I decided I wanted to go back to the roots of steel guitar and learn from the ground up. Traditional Hawaiian lap steel. I think later if I pick up the E9 again I'll have a deeper understanding of why those pedals and knee levers were developed ect.. Thanks again for the terrific post Mike.. now back to the shed.

[James Nottage]

I appreciate your bumping this back up. I am relatively new to the forum and had missed this string. While I do not have a history of playing guitar, the ideas you convey are very helpful. It is very worth while to keep this string going.

James

[Steve Ahola]

Oh, ok.......so then, theoretically speaking, there could be a smidge of "harmonic noise" coming from the unpicked/unmuted in-between string then, right? Just by virtue of the bar sliding on that string.

This isn't a criticism, I'm just trying to understand what's going on.

There should be no noise coming from string 2 at all. I don't even have to block at all and do not encounter any noise. I can't explain why, I just know it shouldn't be there. Perhaps it's a matter of exerting the proper pressure on the strings, or maybe the guitar being set up with the strings on a level plane. If there is a presence of noise, that is something to work on. The first goal of learning to play steel guitar is to make good sound--it really requires honest listening and evaluation, something that may require an experienced teacher to help with.

Try it out and see for yourself.

I just did a quick experiment and if you raise the finger(s) you are dragging behind the bar you may hear the noise that Stephen was mentioning from the string that you are skipping over. You usually think of those fingers just squelching the noise behind the bar (the part of the string between the bar and the nut), but they also have an effect in front of the bar (the part of the string between the bar and the bridge). I think that we do this so automatically that we don't even think about.

EDIT Further testing indicates that there are other factors besides dragging the finger(s) behind the bar that silences the unplayed notes. As Mike mentioned I think it also has something to do with bar pressure. In any case, it does seem to be a skill that you acquire when learning how to play lap steel.

Steve Ahola

[Chris Griffin]

I recently started to play C6. I've been playing Open G for a while, & still have my other lap steel in that tuning for playing Blues. It's nice to have choices.
Chris

[Mark Roeder]

Thanks for bumpping this back up Mike! I is a thread worth rereading.....funny, it wasn't until I read into it awhile did I realize it was an old one.