Taylor Swift

Bill Ladd · Post by **Bill Ladd** » 3 Feb 2010 6:30 am

Franklin wrote:...I thought Jeff Beck was great...PF

Man, so did I! I thought He absolutely nailed Les Paul's sound and style from those 1950's recordings.

Here, give the original a listen (from Alistair Cooke's "Omnibus" TV show -- 1953):

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e0ffdwBUL78

Bill Ladd · Post by **Bill Ladd** » 3 Feb 2010 6:36 am

JB at the Grammys:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pcDJcoqX69A

Franklin · Post by **Franklin** » 3 Feb 2010 6:45 am

Tony and Bill,

The Beck group could have easily performed the tribute live.....I thought he made the right choice to pre-record the track. I liked the way he captured the groove, phrasings, and most important of all, the tone of Les Paul. It was cool how the track sounded like Les Paul's older recordings......Paul

Tony Prior · Post by **Tony Prior** » 3 Feb 2010 8:34 am

well, I for one didn't know the BECK thing wasn't live !

It sure didn't seem like Memorex to me !

regardless, it was very hip..

t

Bill Ladd · Post by **Bill Ladd** » 3 Feb 2010 8:53 am

Funny thing with a Les Paul-inspired performance -- most of it, by default, is Memorex!! On the Omnibus bit I posted, 24 of the 26 parts are prerecorded.

Tony Prior · Post by **Tony Prior** » 3 Feb 2010 8:58 am

I don't care, when I grow up I wanna be like Jeff Beck ...

of course I'm older than him by a year or two...

Ron Page · Post by **Ron Page** » 3 Feb 2010 9:31 am

Chris LeDrew wrote:...They have to work out all their bugs in front of millions.

and to the tune of $$ millions!

American Idol seems to be creating an industry where stars start at the top and work their way down.

Tony Prior · Post by **Tony Prior** » 3 Feb 2010 9:38 am

Ron Page wrote: American Idol seems to be creating an industry where stars start at the top and work their way down.

now that's funny !

Chris LeDrew · Post by **Chris LeDrew** » 3 Feb 2010 9:39 am

Tony, you articulated my feelings on the TS situation much better than I could have. Thanks. I have indeed performed as a front man on national awards shows and large arenas, and it's a whole different ball game up there. No matter what gets worked out in the rehearsals, anything can and will go wrong during the real event. If the monitors go, you have no reference point but your own head voice and hopefully experience from which to draw. Taylor's monitor mix was probably fine, but does she really know what "fine" is? Is she experienced enough to communicate with the techs about such matters? I agree she should be, given the accolades she has received. But as I said, many of these accolades are a result of business men doing their homework and not a result of her personal ambition and such. There is a lot of "you vote for me and I'll vote for you" politics within the Grammy membership to be sure. This is the way with all membership award shows. These politics are worked out during conventions, conferences and parties throughout the months leading up to the voting, and Taylor herself does not have a whole lot to do with this process besides being the "doll" that the business is selling. She faithfully got up and did her twirl for the cameras, and went on to the next arena to pull in another load of cash for the machine. There is more than one mansion being built with her money, and these properties don't have Taylor Swift on the deed.

Taylor seems happy that she has found a vehicle for her writing - which obviously appeals to someone. We on this thread are not the target of her publicity team, so it matters little what we think. But it's fun to debate such matters!

Jack Dillard · Post by **Jack Dillard** » 3 Feb 2010 10:09 am

She's not the best singer I ever heard but I don't think that's her primary job.

Her job is to be an entertainer, which covers much more ground than how well she can sing. She is a good entertainer. I watched a special on CMT about her most recent concert tour and how she was involved in every aspect of the tour, hiring her dancers, designing the sets, the special effects, etc., even designed the interiors on the tour buses. From what they showed of her concert on the special it was very entertaining.

We (musicians) always look at things from a performance/talent point of view, your average person does not, they look at were they entertained, did they have fun, did it make them smile. If you look at her performance on the Grammys from this perspective, the song with Stevie Nicks was very entertaining, two different generations, two women who have been examples for other young women, performing together. From this perspective it was an awesome, entertaining moment.

I think this is why she is where she is, not much to do with her singing ability. Is this good or bad? Don't know but it seems to be the way things are and I don't think I can change them so I guess I need to accept them.

Chris LeDrew · Post by **Chris LeDrew** » 3 Feb 2010 10:21 am

Jack Dillard wrote:We (musicians) always look at things from a performance/talent point of view, your average person does not, they look at were they entertained, did they have fun, did it make them smile. If you look at her performance on the Grammys from this perspective, the song with Stevie Nicks was very entertaining, two different generations, two women who have been examples for other young women, performing together. From this perspective it was an awesome, entertaining moment.

A good point indeed. Nice perspective.

chas smith R.I.P. · Post by **chas smith R.I.P.** » 3 Feb 2010 11:42 am

Quick jump back to the Yardbirds, where the guitar players were Eric Clapton, Jeff Beck and Jimmy Page. A rather stellar group.

Theresa Galbraith · Post by **Theresa Galbraith** » 3 Feb 2010 12:04 pm

Hats off to Stevie Nicks for singing in tune!

Tony Prior · Post by **Tony Prior** » 3 Feb 2010 12:24 pm

Chris LeDrew wrote:Tony, you articulated my feelings on the TS situation much better than I could have.

That's what I'm here for.

A couple of years ago we opened " Geeze I hate that term" a big show for Chris Cagle and some other bands bussed in from Music City..Big stage, make that HUGE stage..

everything was set, it was showtime..
On goes the Shuffletown band ( thats us)..uhh..count off, 1,2 3,4..and...
no monitors..dead...they did work before the count off..

so what did we do ?

we just played, I have no idea if the first 30 minutes was on pitch or not out there in the big field, pretty much didn't care, we had a bigger problem, we were a 6 piece band spread across a 50 foot stage who could not hear anything we were playing, we could see but not hear. We were the odd band setup in between the Music City bands and god help us if we moved a drum !

Ah, no big deal, when I started playing decades back monitors were even invented yet ( I think) so this was no big deal. Just play, get paid and go home !

Nobody boo'd so evidently nobody cared that we cared...

Rick Campbell · Post by **Rick Campbell** » 3 Feb 2010 12:40 pm

Theresa Galbraith wrote:Hats off to Stevie Nicks for singing in tune!

I'm a Stevie Nicks fan. I've never heard her not sing in tune. She's one of the few entertainers I like to hear that are not country, and I only like her ballad songs.

I don't know anything about this Beck guy. I assume he's a popular player, but his break in the video sounds like he was not playing in the same key as the rest of the band much of the time. Obviously, this is a style of music that I've never come to appreciate. First time that I've heard him that I know of. He probably has an impressive resume, but this performance didn't do anything for me.

David Biller, now there's a guitar player... for my ears.

Kevin Hatton · Post by **Kevin Hatton** » 3 Feb 2010 12:49 pm

Taylor Swift = The Emperor's New Clothes. Mandy Barnett anyone?

Franklin · Post by **Franklin** » 3 Feb 2010 2:05 pm

Rick,

I appreciate your honesty......Your statement about Beck would rival someone saying the same about Earl Scruggs....On the Grammy show Jeff essentially copied note for note the Les Paul guitar style.....If you didn't like it, its Les Paul's sounds that bother you.... Jeff Beck is to the guitar, what Earl is to the banjo.

To me, Jeff's performance represented one innovative giant saluting another.

I remember some other teenage stars, Brenda Lee, Leann Rhymes, Jessica Andrews, Tanya Tucker, Wayne Newton, Judy Garland........Is it really age and experience?......IMO, singers either have great control over their vocal range or they don't.

I personally believe Taylors people let her down......Someone needed to say you don't have the vocal range to sing harmony on that song. Taylor sings great within her range....This song was clearly out of her vocal range.

Kevin Hatton · Post by **Kevin Hatton** » 3 Feb 2010 3:24 pm

I agree about Beck. He's a legend. I've followed him since The Yard Birds. His dues have long been paid in full.
Tony, I agree about monitors. Its funny because many of us here grew up playing in an age before monitors. I had more than one experience same as yours. Situations where I couldn't here a darn thing I was doing in front of thousands of people because of the monitors. Got compliments after the show. Shaking my head just thinking I sucked. Going on auto pilot, Alpha waves, and instinct. One thing that steel guitar does is develop your ear beyond some other musicians because of it's intonation control. It makes you a better musician because of its dificulty. And God bless Les Paul. Mr. Electric Guitar.

Chris LeDrew · Post by **Chris LeDrew** » 3 Feb 2010 3:40 pm

I found Taylor's trouble to be intonation as well. She was off-key within the key. This seems to be a common problem with live vocals. I think that because I'm not always consistent as a live vocalist, I have a bit of empathy for her performance.

My forgiveness for bad live vocals also comes from viewing performances of my heroes, such as this one:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GWTz_lU5 ... re=related

At 1:44, Graham Nash is a bad live vocalist. But I still love him.

Taylor Swift does not have drugs to blame, however.

Ray Minich · Post by **Ray Minich** » 3 Feb 2010 3:58 pm

I guess they all gotta break into the biz along some avenue. I'd just like to know what demographic makes up her market.

Michael Haselman · Post by **Michael Haselman** » 3 Feb 2010 5:15 pm

We had this same discussion on Facebook. My verdict: tin ear, writes nice songs (definitely not the norm in Nashville) and is a good role model for young girls. I do like this though:

Her handlers did a quick damage control and got the Youtube pulled this afternoon

Handlers. George The Animal Steele had handlers too.

Bill Hatcher · Post by **Bill Hatcher** » 3 Feb 2010 8:44 pm

The gold dress!!!

I vaguely think that I saw Jeff Beck...

I just kept staring at the gold dress. Super bad!

Rick Campbell · Post by **Rick Campbell** » 3 Feb 2010 9:31 pm

Franklin wrote:Rick,

I appreciate your honesty......Your statement about Beck would rival someone saying the same about Earl Scruggs....On the Grammy show Jeff essentially copied note for note the Les Paul guitar style.....If you didn't like it, its Les Paul's sounds that bother you.... Jeff Beck is to the guitar, what Earl is to the banjo.

To me, Jeff's performance represented one innovative giant saluting another.

I remember some other teenage stars, Brenda Lee, Leann Rhymes, Jessica Andrews, Tanya Tucker, Wayne Newton, Judy Garland........Is it really age and experience?......IMO, singers either have great control over their vocal range or they don't.

I personally believe Taylors people let her down......Someone needed to say you don't have the vocal range to sing harmony on that song. Taylor sings great within her range....This song was clearly out of her vocal range.

I thought it was probably something like that. I'm not a Les Paul fan either, but I certainly respect his talent, and especially the multi-track idea. I'm not critizing either one, I'm too ignorant about this kind of music to speak with any authority. If anyone hasn't noticed, my music exposure has been limited. I hear these names like Beck and I think who's that, but I could probably name you dozens of Monroe's bluegrass boys. I'm not proud of it, but I'm not ashamed of it either, it's just the way it is.

You might be a surprised but Earl is not my banjo hero He's one of my favorite's and of course he's the icon and gets the award for doing the most for banjo. I'm really into Don Reno and I especially like Bob Black from his Monroe days in the 70's. I lean much more toward Monroe music than Flatt and Scruggs. Let's just say I generally found Monroe's music more serious that Flatt and Scruggs.....Salty Dog, etc... A lot of it probably has to do with Monroe's music being more fiddle oriented than F & S.

Taylor Swift - I'm not a fan, but we'd be stupid not to acknowledge her success. She sings well enough to win all the top awards, what more can you ask for?

Paul, I agree about the young singers. I think experience is important, but if they can't sing on pitch at 16 they probably won't be able to at 36 either..... or visa versa. There's also the factor that when a singer starts getting some chart records, they get more attention from good producers, good songs pitched to them, etc...

I'm happy for Taylor and her success, and all the successful ones. I may not be their fan, but I'm happy for them and there's no need to steal their thunder. It's their dream, let then enjoy it.

Tony Prior · Post by **Tony Prior** » 4 Feb 2010 4:30 am

Rick, surely you remember the 60's ? The British wave ?
All new names of guitar players, the AMPS, the sound ,all that...

Jeff Beck hails from the Yardbirds (photo below) surely anyone playing music anywhere near that era heard of the Yardbirds. No ?

From that group came...

Eric Clapton, Jeff Beck and Jimmy Page which from that lineup evolved into Led Zeppelin which the whole planet knows who they are, I think....Clapton moved on to John Mayall ( the Beano LP) from that came the famous Les Paul Guitar and Marshall Bluesbreaker amp fad, then on to Cream..Les Paul,and Marshall stacks, and the rest is history, Page stayed with the band and became the Led Zep guitar guru, still is. Beck developed his own very unique style and just made records.Probably most famous for his recordings with Rod Steweart but had same great guitar LP's along the way.

Every young( and old) budding guitar player or wannabe back then was sold lock stock and barrel, we all wanted to be those guys, play those guitars and use those amps.

Beck became a solo player, imagine that , a Guitar player leading his own band and with the likes of Rod Stewart on vocals, history was born and created, icons were now in place.

Jeff Beck, still my favorite from that period is still the one who is totally creative and different, not predictable by any stretch. When he feels the urge to jump into the traditional Blues mode he is 2nd to none.

When he shows up on these TV shows it's like a time machine, he looks exactly the same, rugged, 60's era-ish, jeans, no sleeves, sun glasses, Tweed Fender amps, Strats, Tele's or in this case a Les Paul, he is Jeff Beck,what we got was true Jeff Beck, playing true Les Paul.

JB's music covers all the genre's, he was recently on tour with BB King, he was a friend of Leo( Fender) and friend of Les Paul, all that..and a collector of Fender amps and Guitars, he is truly a Guitar guy....

ok here's that photo again that keeps all of us Tele guys in check, Jeff Beck from way back then ( far right) with that early Butterscotch Tele. Probably one of the most famous LP covers in guitar history! No way we can't love it..!!

PS,our last two gigs ( Country based) we covered Hendrix, Hey Joe, the place went mad ! I hadn't played that in probably 30 years but it all came back" like a ringin' a bell"... Strat, Fender Tremolux...pure tube drive..."Welcome Home" as they would say... the 60's and 70's ain't a bad place to be from...for many of us, a reference..Merle, Jones and Hendrix, how much fun is that !

Franklin · Post by **Franklin** » 4 Feb 2010 5:43 am

Rick,

I like Black, Reno, etc......Scruggs was chosen because of the impact he made on his instrument and the global music scene....Earl Scruggs forever changed the way the banjo is played. Since his entrance onto the musical stage, Earl has directly or indirectly influenced every living banjo player. The same is true for Jeff.......

Paul