Woodstock, Then & Now

[Chip Fossa]

David,

First off, good friend, I respect your "takes" on any given topic. You are insanely pragmatic and logical. You are, well, even handed. Almost liberal.

God, did I say that?

But David!!!

You surprise me.

Your comparison of Woodstock, WOODSTOCK, to other feeble concerts is really ridiculous.

I thought you were more astute.

Look - Once again, Woodstock came out of left field.

Actually David, I'll spare both of us. I'm not gonna go on about the "glamour" of Woodstock.

Concerts, as great as they were, that simultaneously went on when Woodstock went down, doesn't demean or diminish from either event(s).

And nudity?

HUH?

Is banal sexuality a premise for comparing rock concerts????

C'mon David. I know you like to lead the pack.

But your sensibilities here beffutle me.

Still think you're a premier forumite

[Glen Derksen]

I remember that 1969 was one of the best summers of my life, even though I was only 7 years old. Sorry to say that I didn't even hear of woodstock until I was about 18.

[Glen Derksen]

I was 13 at the time and 15 min away in a summer bible camp. Some friends were going there on Sat to hand out "leaflets". I decided to stay and water ski on the lake. Also, there was a 14 year old "older" girl I had the hots for and she was not going out there. Bottom line, she never showed up, the water skiing was nice, but the stories my buddies brought back were priceless. I'm still trying to learn that lesson :)

Same here. I went to a summer bible camp that year, and it was a very nice memory for me. Of course, at the age of seven, I didn't quite have the hots for girls just yet.

[David Doggett]

Chip, I wasn't trying to belittle the experience of those who were at Woodstock. The sheer size of the crowd would have made that a more monumental experience, along with the fact it was the first such festival for most of those there. So for those who were there it was earth shaking.

I'm just saying the Northeast media attention elevated its importance to the exclusion of all other such festivals around the same time. It's become the symbol for all festivals. Other festivals had many of the same performers, minus the rain and mud and lack of food. People at these festivals had similar moving experiences. Of course we don't really know what Woodstock was like if we weren't there, but the same is true for the other festivals.

The festival I wish I had been at, and would swap for Woodstock any day, was the Monterey Festival. It was the first one. It was much smaller and more intimate. The stars like Hendrix and Joplin weren't quite the international bombshells they later became. You could get right up close to the small stage and catch them in a more seminal period. And from what I can tell from the films and articles, there was some mingling of the performers among themselves and the crowd. Must have been a fantastic musical experience, although the media do not celebrate it as the kind of mega cultural landmark that Woodstock was.

[b0b]

I was at Altamont. Does that count?

[CrowBear Schmitt]

Do these count ?
i was at the Miami Pop Festival at Gulfstream Racetrack in May 1968 that David D mentions
Pre Woodstock Michael Lang Production
(roadie for the crazy world of arthur brown)
http://www.themiamipopfestival.com/gallhistory.html
i'm in the big pick (to the left of the stage) when Jimi was playin'
http://crosstowntorrents.org/showthread.php?t=1244

i also was at the Palm Beach Festival in November 1969
(roadie for Johnny Winter)
here's the link : i'm in pictures # 11 & 13 on the right in the Ryder truck
got to see the Stones too

http://www.palmbeachpopfestival.com/p-bstage.html

[Joachim Kettner]

Crowbear, were there any fire extinguishers at hand during Arthur Brown's perfomance?

[CrowBear Schmitt]

in some of the big halls there was a fire warden w: one but in certain halls like the Fillmore, Grande ballroom, there were'nt any fire wardens but there was an extinguisher around
actually the fire in the helmet did'nt last very long
an inflammable jelly was used which smoked & stank
the strongest effects that arthur used were two airport strobes w: a green lens on one & a red one on the other & they used to shake the joint up real good
we all got arrested in Ft Lauderdale for a publicity stunt arthur pulled in the hotel w: them strobes
turn on the bubble machine !

[David Doggett]

Well, actually, neither of those "Miami" festivals Crowbear links to was the one I went to. It was around Xmas '68/New Year's '69. I will never forget it, because we travelled from Mississippi in a beat up VW beetle. It was fluke below freezing weather coming through South Alabama and the Florida panhandle. One of our windows was out. We covered it with a blanket, and the blanket froze stiff. Much to our relief, in South Florida it warmed up to beautiful sunny 70's weather (Farenheit) with gentle breezes. It was at Gulfstream Park, just like the one in the previous May. I don't remember Hendrix being there. The only groups I definitely remember were Steppenwolf, Iron Butterfly, and Procol Harum. But it was at least two days of music on two simultaneous stages, and I was in altered states.

But this underscores my point. Apparently there were three big festivals in South Florida alone within about a year-and-a-half. They were happening all over, so it just didn't seem very urgent to travel all the way to Woodstock, NY to see one. Working on a newspaper that covered music, we got notices and ads from most of them. In fact we ran an ad for Woodstock. We were sort of surprised when it turned into such a media event. In terms of the performer lineup, it didn't seem any different from many others. And considering the rain and mud and lack of food, we were glad we skipped it. Frankly, the naked swimming at the Atlanta festival seemed like a way better deal at the time.

[Dave Hopping]

I think the legacy of Woodstock is best shown by the footage of all the trash the partygoers left behind for someone ese to clean up,as well as all the money the partygoers DIDN'T send the promoters to pay for their entertainment....and six years later the helicopter on the rooftop surrounded by Vietnamese civilians desperate to escape from what the friends of the Woodstock Nation were going to do to them.

I'm grateful that the instrument and the music to which this Forum dedicates itself were NOT represented at Woodstock.

[Duncan Hodge]

Dave, I understand what instrument the Steel Guitar Forum dedicates itself to, but exactly what type of music does the Steel Guitar Forum dedicate itself to?

[Doug Beaumier]

There is no doubt that Woodstock was the Biggest, and most well-known rock concert of that era and is symbolic of the youth culture of the era. But some of the rock festivals during the "Summer of '69" were better and more enjoyable than Woodstock... for me anyway. The weekend Before Woodstock I saw The Who, Jefferson Airplane, B.B. King and others at Tanglewood and it was a great concert, a beautiful outdoor venue, and I stood right at the edge of the stage, about 20 feet from Pete Townshend during The Who performance. The atmosphere was much like Woodstock, but without the hassles. In July of that summer I went to the Newport Jazz Festival - Led Zeppelin, The Who, Jeff Beck, John Mayall, James Brown (with his Big band), Frank Zappa, Jethro Tull, Aretha Franklin, Blood Sweat & Tears, 10 Years After, and others. My memories from those two events in the summer of '69 are much sweeter than my Woodstock memories, although I'm glad that I went to Woodstock. There were more hassles at Woodstock. More traffic, more people, crappy weather, harder to see the stage, etc. I guess I was spoiled by seeing great shows at great venues prior to Woodstock. In my memories I think of that entire summer as one non-stop party! To me Woodstock represents the end of an era. A huge farewell to the 1960's and the naive innocence of peace, love, and all that.

[David Doggett]

Exactly my point about the other festivals, Doug. However, I see Woodstock and those other festivals as part of the beginnings of the cultural revolution and conflict that went on in the '70s, '80s, '90s, and still continues. The end of that early "big festival" era was the festival b0b, mentioned, Altamont. Gone were the gentle and idealistic college trippers. If you read the accounts of Altamont, hard drugs and greedy dealers were more part of the scene, and it was a mob of selfish, frenzied kids who trampled and crushed people at the front and were savagely beaten by the biker security force. As I recall there was at least one death by such beating. The Stones tried to stop it from the stage, but couldn't control it.

And to damp the potential politicization of this topic, there was not the anti-war unity in those days that some might imagine. As I recall, when Abbie Hoffman tried to make an anti-war speech from the Woodstock stage, Pete Townsend of the Who knocked him off the stage with his guitar. A lot of entertainment people resisted the politicization of music. And a lot of the counter-culture hippies considered the music industry mostly corrupt and exploitive, which is one reason they so enthusiastically crashed Woodstock and refused to pay.

[Doug Beaumier]

If you read the accounts of Altamont, hard drugs and greedy dealers were more part of the scene, and it was a mob of selfish, frenzied kids who trampled and crushed people at the front and were savagely beaten by the biker security force.

Yes, the infamous stabbing murder of an 18 year old by the Hells Angels who were doing "security" for the Rolling Stones. The stabber was never prosecuted because the victim had a gun and supposedly pointed it toward the stage while the band was performing. What a reality check!

[Guy Cundell]

I am curious about what the PA sounded like. If you couldn't see from the back, how much could you hear? What was the quality like? I have always enjoyed the recordings, Cocker, Sly, Santana et. al. but here seemed to be quite a lot of backline equipment. If they were relying on that the sound couldn't have been that effective. What was the drum sound like??

The acoustic sets seemed pretty good despite the lack of acoustic pickups though Steven Stills guitar severely lacks bottom end. Richie Havens sound quite good for just a couple of Shures. How well did the acoustics project or was it feedback hell?

I am interested in developments in PAs especially between the Beatles inadequate set up at their last gig at Candlestick Park to the Woodstock gear 4 years later. I'd appreciate any recommendation of a text or site about this.

[Darvin Willhoite]

I found a description of the Woodstock sound system on the web. They had approx. 12,000 watts of Macintosh power, (a mixture of tube and solid state) and the speakers were custom built for this festival, and some were sitting on 70' towers. The mic's were custom made by Shure, and later were used as a basis for the SM-58. It was an interesting read.

[Chip Fossa]

It just happened to turn out to be the quintessential hallmark (not the cards) of the counter culture.

Woodstock was well more than the music. It was actually sticking up the middle finger to our lying, conniving government about not only Vietnam, but all aspects of our governance. Nothing's changed much since Woodstock.

I don't have health insurance.

What a farce this is. The most powerful and richest country on this planet, and 40 million souls have no health insurance.
What's wrong with this picture. Why can't this country follow other democratic countrys in their approach. OH - socialism!! God forbid. We already have it, dummies, with medicare and medicade, and VFW, and present military care. Oh, and let's not leave out the Senate and Congress. No wonder those worthless represenatives of 'we the people' stall and bicker and never come to terms, just so they can keep their jobs, but more eye-bugging - health coverage. Look at Ted Kennedy. Look at me.

It's a friggin' joke.

See, big pig insurance companies, and pig oil companies, and other pig special companies really still run this country. Suckers, us lowlies.

That was what Woodstock was really about. Wake up.

OK - I know this is getting political. But THAT to me was the true essence of Woodstock.

It really wasn't about the music.

Dave H., the mess was eventually cleaned up. The event exploded. The promoters, and this is well documented, accepted the fact that they "took a beating" (but I'm sure they live "better" than I do today, if they're still alive - I know I am).

[Doug Beaumier]

I am curious about what the PA sounded like. If you couldn't see from the back, how much could you hear?

We were pretty far back, but the field sloped down slightly, so we could see the stage, although it was far away! I could hear the vocals and guitars, not much drums. The sound system was cranked, but it didn't cover the entire area, like today's systems would. A half-million people on 600 acres is a lot to cover!



Here's some info I found on line regarding the sound, and Bill Hanley (not Bill Hankey), the guy who designed the system:

“I was trying to find someone who could do a sound system for Woodstock, and there was no one who had ever done something like that before,” says Michael Lang, promoter of both Woodstocks. “Then there was this crazy guy in Boston who might want to take a shot at it.” Lang says they spoke at length, and it left him feeling that Hanley understood the Herculean task at hand. He points out that in those days, you couldn’t rent systems—they needed to be built from scratch.

When the first location for the event fell through, Hanley went with Lang to Max’s farm in a limo, visualized where the stages and sound equipment would go and said, “this is it.” He liked the spot because he could set up the stages and equipment in a big “V,” a design that provided crowd control as well as giving free flowing access to backstage performers. Plus, it meant sound from one stage wouldn’t bleed into another.

In the beginning, Hanley was handling much of the production—picking the crew, even handling the master recording. “It worked very well,” he says of the event. “I built special speaker columns on the hills and had 16 loudspeaker arrays in a square platform going up to the hill on 70-foot towers. We set it up for 150,000 to 200,000 people.

“Of course, 500,000 showed up.”

[Ron Whitfield]

I think the legacy of Woodstock is best shown by the footage of all the trash the partygoers left behind for someone ese to clean up,as well as all the money the partygoers DIDN'T send the promoters to pay for their entertainment...

40 years later and some still don't get it.

Max got 75 Gs and the promoters had anther 50 Gs in reserve for damages. I wonder if he saw that?

Jimi got 32 Gs, $15 for opening the festival with an accoustic set, which never happened, and another $15 for the closing, plus $2000 for general expenses (which clinched the deal). They got their money.

Whereas Sha Na Na was allotted a whopping $300 for their terrific set just prior to Jimi's. The check bounced!
But they were one of the few groups that got a big jump in their careers from the show, especially the film. Richie, Santana, TYA, and Sly, also benefitted greatly from their appearances. Quill, and The Incredible String Band, not so much...
Richie Havens has become iconic via his song Freedom which was in the film. The tune was made up on the spot as he'd already played everything he knew, and threw Motherless Child in it which he hadn't played in nearly 20 years. He opened the late starting festival only because he was the only one ready, and had to keep going back out on stage until someone else could.

While the promoters took an innitial financial hit because they tried to do it better than had ever been done before, they made out well over time with the LPs, film, and otherwise.

Michael Lang, the man behind it all, has a new book out, which I just started reading yesterday, and it gives lot's of background and interesting insights of the whole affair.

[Alan Tanner]

HHmmmm....I missed out...I joined the military in '66 and was busy in another part of the world. Guess I was one of the ones who they were "protesting"......didn't hear much about it til it was long over. I guess I didn't care much then, and not much now...oh well.

[John De Maille]

After so many years, I find it hard to remember everything, that, went on there. As I'd said, I was there before, during and after the festival. There was much craziness all during the event. Most of my friends and people I'd met, didn't really care about politics at that given moment. We just cared about the music and a good time. Everybody had the doom of Viet Nam hanging over our heads and it was a great release to enjoy a "groovy" movement. And yes, there were people, who, definitely abused everything, just as it is today, but, the overall aspect was amazement. We (my crowd) never even thought about it being a historical event, at the time. There were all kinds of people there, long hairs, short hairs, no hair, druggies, straight, political and non political. It was a complete melting pot of youth. Just kids... kids... looking to have a good time in a climate of insecurity. I got paid for my work there and so did everyone else, in one sort or another, eventually. I'm glad I participated at the concert.

P.S.- 6 months later, I was drafted and wound up in the 75th Infantry Rangers, 2nd Battalion, Able Co.
I wasn't a war monger (still not), but, would not leave my country or dodge the draft. The times were really stupid then, just as now.

[Kenneth Kotsay]

I might wrong about here, but I read that the festivale was not held in Woodstock but Bethel. If this is true, then it would be called, THE BETHEL FESTIVALE.

I was 20 at the time and stationed in the Air Force at McCoy A.F.B. in Orlando,Florida, had no leave time and if I did I would be running after the chicks up at Daytona beach or drinking some cold ones at the Oak Beach Inn on Long Island NY.

[Ray Minich]

I just happened to come in possession of a set of Billboard 100 top tunes for each year from 1960 thru 1975. (My observation after reviewing the set was that 1975 was a lousy year for Top 100 music... )

One of the most significant observations was that we listened to all that music mostly thru 6 x 9 inch speakers on the AM radio (at least up until FM became more commercialized around 1971-1972).

Sure sounds better in stereo.

PS: Thank you Alan (and the rest of you Veterans) for your service to our country.

[Joachim Kettner]

1975 was a lousy year for Top 100 music...

Ray, am I not getting this? Woodstock took place in '69

[Ray Minich]

Yes, 1969, when AM ruled the airwaves thru 6 x 9's..

I was in 10th or 11th grade... did not yet have my driver's license. I was pulling the tunes out of a converted Buick car radio at night from 77 WABC NYC (Cousin Brucie show)