Anyone have any experience with Del Vecchio Dynamicos?

Andy Volk · Post by **Andy Volk** » 26 Oct 2008 4:11 am

Been following this discussion with much interest. I've coveted a DV for years but have never played one in person. The have a sound like no other guitar. I've talked with Carroll Benoit about a lap-style guitar with the look of the McGill DV but never pursued it further. Bill, thanks for all this info about the DV guitars. Your comment about the cheapness of the guitar and the construction contributing to the tone is an insightful comment - one that's rarely considered. Nato Lima offered me a chance to buy his DV when I interviewed him for FJ but after he'd listed all it's problems (and said how thrilled he was with the McGill) it didn't seem like such an attractive deal. Another in a long line of bad guitar decisions, sigh.

Adair Torres · Post by **Adair Torres** » 28 Oct 2008 4:40 pm

Stuart Duncan playing "We Hide and Seek" with my DelVecchio 1930 or 1940, in Sao Paulo 06/22/1997.
Francisco DelVecchio Filho, owner of the factory, did not say what the year of manufacture

Bill Hatcher · Post by **Bill Hatcher** » 29 Oct 2008 5:33 am

Adair. Since you are in Sao Paulo please tell us what the used availiability of these old DV guitars is, ESPECIALLY the brazillian rosewood models with the large tuner buttons like the one in the picture you posted. I find that these are the absolutely best sounding ones.

Do they show up used in pawn shops or music stores or flea markets etc???

Adair Torres · Post by **Adair Torres** » 29 Oct 2008 6:34 pm

My friend Bill Hatcher,
I do not believe that still exist the same acoustic guitars DV done with Rosewood (Jacarandá da Bahia) for sell, perhaps in the north and northeast of Brazil you can find some very old because for a long time DV was the leader in the manufacture of such acoustic guitar and some singers of the Northeast folklore began to use that kind of acoustic guitars in their songs and even today this kind of music is part of Brazilian folklore.
The Brazilian government has banned the use of such wood to make instruments since 1966.
My DV is under the bed since 1996. Stuart Duncan was the last musician who played it.
Before that, the neck of the DV had already broken through 3 times.
I don’t even know if the manufactures DelVecchio still makes guitars because I never heard of DelVecchio and I don’t even know if "Francisco DelVecchio Filho" is alive.
The most famous Brazilian musicians never used acoustic guitars manufactured in Brazil.
We buy the most famous brands and specific instruments.
Brazilian acoustic guitars have always been low level when compared with other, you know what I mean?
I will try to get some news about DV and then I let you know.
Adair Torres.

Darrell Urbien · Post by **Darrell Urbien** » 31 Oct 2008 5:47 am

OK, how about this one?

I've seen several of this seller's auctions on eBay, but have been gun-shy about bidding on something in Brazil. Is this guitar one of the "good ones," Bill? The wood looks different from some of his previous auctions; perhaps older? Can't tell if the tuners are the ones you are looking for, and he doesn't mention the scale... I suppose I'll know if it's a good price if it sells quickly!

If anything, the auction is a great source of photos of the interior construction, especially the shots of the back bracing under the cone, the inside of the coverplate, and the shape of the resonator ledge. I also found the linings and neck block shape interesting, and the pot knobs are pretty cool looking too.

You can also see the size and shape of the long brace from neck to heel block that's mentioned in the text of McGill's patent (which, curiously, is included in the auction).

Questions:

In the photos where he shows what happened when he opened the guitar ("Where is the cone?! The cone is missing! Oh my God !") you can see a wooden disk on the floor next to the coverplate. What is that?

Also in the photos that look to be taken from inside the resonator cavity, what are those lengths of threaded rod coming through the top? The bolts holding the pickup? If so, those are pretty beefy, no?

Adair Torres · Post by **Adair Torres** » 31 Oct 2008 6:16 am

Nice question:
("Where is the cone?!")
Does he knows that this kind of Acoustic Guitar needs a cone?

Darrell Urbien · Post by **Darrell Urbien** » 31 Oct 2008 6:47 am

Hi Adair,

Thanks for replying - yes, I think this auction is kind of like a diary - he's telling the story of how he FIXED the guitar before he put it up for auction. There are other photos later in the sequence where he shows how he replaced the cone with an original. At least that's how I read it.

You know, I wonder if that wooden disk was just a "dummy" cone the previous owner put in there to hold up the biscuit? I would've loved to have been in the room when the seller pulled the coverplate off! It must've sounded really bad - he must've suspected something, wouldn't you think?

FWIW, here's the kind of tone I'm after (though admittedly this isn't Steel Guitar):

Renato Anesi on Del Vecchio

Renato Anesi on DV Tenor

Both of those have big honkin' tuner buttons - are those the ones you are talking about, Bill?

I also notice quite often one or more screen covers will be missing - especially the upper ones on the body. Do players remove these on purpose (perhaps to cure rattles?) or do you think they just get lost/damaged over time? If there's a reason NOT to have them, I won't waste my time trying to replicate them.

Adair Torres · Post by **Adair Torres** » 31 Oct 2008 7:42 am

As I told you before, I don't believe you'll find a good DV, they are not good and never been.
I play on my Dobro 1972 and then I play on my Del Vecchio 1930-40. The Dv sounds very bad.
For a long time I used the Del Vecchio to practice. When Matthew Prouty gave me the Dobro, I closed the case of the DV forever.

Bill Hatcher · Post by **Bill Hatcher** » 31 Oct 2008 8:02 am

Hard to tell about the one on ebay. That guy is allways digging out some DV guitars and fixing them up and selling them. I have seen them with cracks in the neck etc. I don't like the look of the rosewood even though he says it is Brazillian, it does not have the best appearance.

It is an old one though.

The fellow playing on the Youtube video...his sound is totally different. He is micing the guitar up in the area of the two soundholes at the upper bouts. The design of the DV guitar is such that the treble comes from around the bridge and the bass comes from the upper sound holes. That is why it sounds like that. Atkins uses the sound from the cone area more that tne bass area.

I wish the video were a bit brighter.

Here is a pic on my long scale. 60s, Brazillian Rwood BIG pink tuners. The previous owner added a pickup which I took out. I use that area to mic the guitar as I like the upper sound a lot. Interesting small sound holes around the cone. Makes the wood a little stronger. When you have the larger holes all around, the wood tends to warp badly over time.

Here are the big pink tuners. A sure sign of a 60s guitar.

Here is the back of a beautiful rosewood short scale DV that I am restoring. Probably a late 60s early 70s model with rosewood and the same gears with a different button on them.

Darrell Urbien · Post by **Darrell Urbien** » 31 Oct 2008 1:17 pm

Bill Hatcher wrote:The fellow playing on the Youtube video...his sound is totally different.

LOL, Bill. Maybe the tone I'm after isn't really a DV's after all - maybe I just want to sound like Renato Anesi!

I also posted other links to DV Tenor videos in the Yahoo Tenor Guitar Registry group. I'm not sure if you have to be a member to view them, but in any case there are quite a few other examples on YouTube that have a more "reso" tone.

Here is a pic on my long scale. 60s, Brazillian Rwood BIG pink tuners. The previous owner added a pickup which I took out. I use that area to mic the guitar as I like the upper sound a lot.

So if I understand you, the pickup was originally mounted in that black plastic thing (which at that time was up by the fingerboard). Then you removed the pickup, spun the coverplate around so the pickup hole was under the tailpiece, and now use it as a mike port? Ingenious!

Some of the DVs I've seen on the net appear to have coverplates spun to all sorts of different orientations. Some plates I've seen are "missing" a hole, leaving a "blank" spot. I had always thought this was meant to go under the tailpiece. McGill's patent claims an evenly-distributed hole pattern gets in the way of a player's hand (he also says something about absolute symmetry causing unwanted muting/distortion). He recommends an uneven spacing, which leaves a "blank" portion of the coverplate where a picking hand might rest. Is this really an issue with yours? I don't know if that McGill idea ever made it to production.

Here are the big pink tuners. A sure sign of a 60s guitar.

Neat! Never seen those before on eBay, but they're similar in size to the ones in the YouTube vids. Do you think they started out that color, or did they degrade to pink?

Here is the back of a beautiful rosewood short scale DV that I am restoring.

Wow, really nice, Bill. Thanks for sharing all this info, I really appreciate it!

BTW, I asked the eBay seller about the scale of the guitar in his auction and he responded: "The guitar have 990mm and the arm have 630mm."

Bill Hatcher · Post by **Bill Hatcher** » 31 Oct 2008 2:52 pm

Yes you are right about the position of the hole for the pickup. I still have the pickup, just never had a desire to put it back in. It is actually a pickup from an old 60s Kay bass.

Like I said the 6 larger holes you see in many DV guitars weakens the plate and causes warpage.

The tuners are pink from the beginning. I have seen ONE set on Ebay...went for more than I wanted to pay. What is nice about them is the shafts are made of aluminum which will hold the metal strings without breaking.

The scale on Ebay is long. A great sound, but harder to play. Some day I will have the short scale guitar back on the air.

In regards to McGill...nice instrument. WAY overpriced and all the "improvements" are pretty overblown by him. A hole is a hole. The small cheap body of the original sounds great. Someone should just make some copies of the original...say for a grand. Just improve the fret spacing and the finish work and make a raised nut model also..lot's of folks would buy these. I don't know if Mel McCollough made any of these or not, but I know he was thinking of it. You might to contact him. His prices are very reasonable. His site is down right now, but might be up later on.

http://www.mcculloughguitars.com/

Phill Martin · Post by **Phill Martin** » 2 Nov 2008 11:25 pm

"OK, this is borderline OT, but since I can't seem to post on Reso Nation anymore I figured I'd try here."

Darrel did you get baned from the Reso National forum? If so what happened if you don't mind the question.

Darrell Urbien · Post by **Darrell Urbien** » 2 Nov 2008 11:56 pm

No, my life isn't THAT dramatic... I just stopped going there when they required membership to post. I don't know, is there a lot of DV discussion on that board?

Darrell Urbien · Post by **Darrell Urbien** » 9 Nov 2008 3:25 am

I passed on THIS ONE as it looked to have a bunch of issues... But would one of these be another option for the DV sound?

THIS ONE didn't last long... This is the second or third one I've seen with these big amber/orange buttons. How do they relate to Bill's pink ones?

His "strong case" shipping method gives me the willies...

Darrell Urbien · Post by **Darrell Urbien** » 12 Nov 2008 6:33 pm

Here's a BLACK ONE with hexagonal tuners.

This seller sure seems to have access to lots of DVs...

Michael Lee Allen · Post by **Michael Lee Allen** » 14 Nov 2008 9:04 am

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Michael Lee Allen · Post by **Michael Lee Allen** » 14 Nov 2008 9:06 am

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Michael Lee Allen · Post by **Michael Lee Allen** » 14 Nov 2008 9:08 am

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Michael Lee Allen · Post by **Michael Lee Allen** » 14 Nov 2008 9:10 am

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Michael Lee Allen · Post by **Michael Lee Allen** » 14 Nov 2008 9:13 am

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Bill Hatcher · Post by **Bill Hatcher** » 14 Nov 2008 10:19 am

Nice info as usual MLA.

In regards to the Los Indios recordings. Nato Lima did not use the DV guitars after maybe the third RCA recording. Their story is interesting. The first RCA recording was originally called "Sweet and Savage"...a marketing ploy. It did not sell well. Then a radio DJ in NY used Maria Elena as a theme song and the song took off. RCA repackaged the albumn as "Maria Elena". That record was NOT done on the DV Dinamico guitar. BOTH played nylon string. The next few RCA recordings were on DV Dinamico for Nato and nylon for Antenor. After that Nato played some nylon and then you heard him on a guitar that he made himself that I saw in 1969 or 70 when I saw them in concert. I went backstage and met them and he let me play and examine this guitar. I won't go into detail, but it basically had a soundboard under the top.

Darrell Urbien · Post by **Darrell Urbien** » 14 Nov 2008 1:42 pm

Thanks for the additional info everyone.. I guess maybe I should take a hint and stop looking for an original, eh?

That eBay seller in Sao Paulo said he could find me a DV tenor for around $1K. If I have to redo everything once it gets here that doesn't sound like a wise choice.

Re: Los Indios, because of all this DV talk I went and bought this:

http://www.amazon.com/Serie-Platino-Los ... mus_ep_dpi

Any DV-playing on those tracks, or should I look for a different album?

Post by **Brad Bechtel** » 14 Nov 2008 2:16 pm

We seem to have gotten off track from Steel Without Pedals. Moved to Music.

Michael Lee Allen · Post by **Michael Lee Allen** » 23 Nov 2008 12:51 pm

Removed.

Andy Volk · Post by **Andy Volk** » 23 Nov 2008 2:32 pm

Maria Elena is THE classic Nato Lima track with the Del Vecchio.
Check out some more cool Los Indios Tabajra's info here:

http://brazilianguitar.net/lofiversion/ ... p/t96.html

sounds like the Dinamico to me on the vibrato sample clip.