"Homeless" in Nashville..............

Joe Casey · Post by **Joe Casey** » 16 Sep 2008 8:28 am

Marc right you are.on two fronts.Yes Welfare is just an abused system but not by all...And yes the Couple was targeted and the murderer was not homeless...Its commendable when someone reaches out to help someone in need...But in anycase there is a difference between a Beggar and a Bum.....

George Redmon · Post by **George Redmon** » 16 Sep 2008 9:40 am

I will say one thing on this subject and only one thing. The reason for most people being homeless, is drugs, booze, mental illness. A respectable, intelligent, honest person, may be homeless, but not on welfare. Many of our vets are homeless, after giving of themselves for our country, with little or no thanks. Unless you've been there, don't critize. I've worked many hours in pantrys, and at the rescue mission for the homeless. And most are not happy and content to be homeless. But most have no choice. Want to see homeless people, go stand out in front of the whitehouse.Would you deprive a person with cancer a meal, or a helping hand? Alcohol, and drug addition is just as big of an illness as cancer. So like i said, unless you have walked in those shoes, don't be so quick to judge. There is a world of difference between a homeless person, and someone laying around on the welfare rolls, having kids, which the tax payers support. Lets stay on topic here. Have a great day, and thank god for your meals, and warm safe place to sleep. God bless you all, and keep you safe.

Joe Casey · Post by **Joe Casey** » 16 Sep 2008 10:16 am

Unless we are talking about Musicians being homeless I think we drifted way off the music topic thread....

George Redmon · Post by **George Redmon** » 16 Sep 2008 10:18 am

Especially Musicians

Danny Bates · Post by **Danny Bates** » 16 Sep 2008 12:20 pm

Sorry for the drift Joe. It's a sad situation musicians or not.

George Redmon said:

I will say one thing on this subject and only one thing. The reason for most people being homeless, is drugs, booze, mental illness. A respectable, intelligent, honest person, may be homeless, but not on welfare.

I agree George. A person can be homeless and too proud to beg. Many of these people are invisible in our society.

Leslie Ehrlich · Post by **Leslie Ehrlich** » 16 Sep 2008 2:36 pm

Danny Bates wrote:He's happy and content being a nice, likeable bum.

Does that bother you?

Joe Casey wrote:We have numerous people on our welfare rolls very capable of work but are content to sponge off the system...

Yeah, yeah, I've heard this argument all too often. Those welfare bums are stealing your hard-earned tax dollars so they can live it up and have a jolly good time. And they do it just to aggravate people with attitudes like yours.

Sure there are a few people who abuse the system, but such cases are the exception, not the rule. A few bad apples don't spoil the whole bunch.

John Steele (deceased) · Post by **John Steele (deceased)** » 16 Sep 2008 8:40 pm

Sorry Leslie, but I have to speak up and say, as a fellow Canadian, I feel a man's responsibility to support himself supercedes any person's right to artistic pretentions. And that's the end of that for me.
Good on you, Jerry. I'm also an enthusiastic supporter of the Union Missions program locally. And by enthusiastic, I mean ponying up the cash, not making speeches.
-John

Danny Bates · Post by **Danny Bates** » 16 Sep 2008 9:19 pm

Leslie wrote:

Danny Bates wrote:
He's happy and content being a nice, likeable bum.

Does that bother you?

It doesn't bother me Leslie. I like the guy. He has the right to live however he wants.

Leslie Ehrlich · Post by **Leslie Ehrlich** » 16 Sep 2008 11:21 pm

John Steele wrote:Sorry Leslie, but I have to speak up and say, as a fellow Canadian, I feel a man's responsibility to support himself supercedes any person's right to artistic pretentions.

Most musicians who know they aren't going to make enough money playing music will take a day job. And with the music business being what it is (and has been for decades), a guy would be crazy not to.

No, the reason why I started chucking harpoons was because I was afraid this thread was at risk of turning toward the topic of 'poor-bashing'

.

Joe Casey · Post by **Joe Casey** » 17 Sep 2008 5:52 am

Leslie "Poor Bashing"???? No one post I've seen including mine are bashing the poor..."Homeless" can be arrived by circumstances or by choice..Poverty is not a disease and being poor doesn't stop one from working and surviving even tho its a hardship...As we speak with the worlds fading economy everyone is prone to circumstances and many are just a weekly paycheck from the street...But there are those that have chosen the street,the Booze ,the Drugs rather than attempting to help themselves..Musicians are many and full time musicianship requires work and skill as in any trade...Those that survive in music full time, Work hard at it with devotion and determiation..Once again the key word is work....But when the well dries up there are two kinds of holes to dig..One for new water the other to hide in...

David Mason · Post by **David Mason** » 17 Sep 2008 7:18 am

We wouldn't even be having this discussion in a more civilized country. If you take all the welfare programs put together - food stamps, section 8 housing, Aid to Families with Dependent Children etc. - it adds up to less than one-half of one percent of the defense budget, and that was in 2002. In other words, you could fund the entire welfare system by cutting one out of every two hundred dollars the Pentagon spends - gee is there any waste there?

The whole corridor from Tampa/St. Pete to Pensacola is full of wealthy defense procurement specialists and representatives for corporations building "defense" nonsense we don't need and no taxpayer ever asked for - do you consider them to be welfare cheats? If not, why?

Leslie Ehrlich · Post by **Leslie Ehrlich** » 17 Sep 2008 9:22 am

Joe Casey wrote:Those that survive in music full time, Work hard at it with devotion and determiation..Once again the key word is work...

Ahh... liberal ideology at its finest. All one has to do is work hard and success is guaranteed.

I hate to rain on your parade, but there are lots of musicians who 'worked hard' and ended up playing themselves into oblivion. For every musician who gave up his day job to play music, there are dozens more who gave up music and stuck to their day jobs.

Joe Casey · Post by **Joe Casey** » 17 Sep 2008 12:56 pm

Yes there are successes and failures in any field..Music does not have the market cornered in failures..There are no guarantees in life...I don't know of anyone that ever succeeded without a good work ethtic along with talent..In truth, hard work does not guaranty success..Pride in ones self is a big start...Its easy to grab an opinion on "why try, there ain't enough work to make a living"...Whether it is music or a day job if one works both then one is a part timer of one or the other..If it takes two-three jobs to get though life then thats a great effort of a smart man who should take pride in doing so....We all have to make up someway for our limitations..I am glad for the many who took the chance and succeeded..But we all measure success in diferent ways.Better to not have to wonder if they could have or regret never trying too...No one can say that the ones living homeless did not try?..We have all had choices and we live and die with the choices we make....George Jones sung it well..

Leslie Ehrlich · Post by **Leslie Ehrlich** » 17 Sep 2008 7:49 pm

Joe Casey wrote:If it takes two-three jobs to get though life then thats a great effort of a smart man who should take pride in doing so....

If a person has to take two or three jobs just to make a living I call that 'making the best of a bad situation'. It also means that there is something seriously wrong with the economic system if people are working longer and harder just to get by.

What I've found most troubling is that it's gotten harder to make playing music a 'second job' (i.e. weekend gigs, dances, the odd bar gig here and there). Thanks to recorded music, radio, television, and automation the demand for live music has steadily decreased. I don't even think about playing music for pocket money any more.

Kevin Hatton · Post by **Kevin Hatton** » 17 Sep 2008 8:48 pm

David Mason, you are indeed an intelligent observant individual. I love the way these hard cores hop on people in need of help when excutives from the big corporate institutions are robbing and destroying America with a pen and a computer. Help a starving musician today.

Danny Bates · Post by **Danny Bates** » 17 Sep 2008 10:42 pm

Leslie, You gotta have some faith. Why do you give a "premptive strike" for comments made about "bums, beggars and wino's" ??? Is it really "just in case" we start dogging them?

I've been playing music full time for many years. I've heard this crap about the music business my whole life from school teachers, direct family members and people like you. I've had musicians come over to my house and they are so familiar with saying crap (like you just said), that they believe it must be true. This is the same negative stuff I've heard my whole life. You should should know that nobody wants to play in a band with a "Captain Bringdown" whiner.

It's a big world... If you want to play music, first, get some faith and go where the work is. Quit griping because you just may start to believe it. Quess what? Joe Casey's post may be the truth.

Am I talented, young and good looking?...No.
Am I lucky?... Yes.... because I am working.
Do I have faith in myself?.... Yes
Do I work hard?.... Yes... Very hard.
Do I go where the work is?.... Yes... to the opposite side of the earth.
Am I content living the life of a musician who has been told "The music business sucks" his whole life... Yes... very happy

Sorry to rant and rave but it's really not the governments fault that people are homeless and can't find a job. I think everything that can be said about this homeless issue has already been said in this thread. IMHO, you should take some time and read it... slowly... without lashing back at everybody. Peace

Leslie Ehrlich · Post by **Leslie Ehrlich** » 18 Sep 2008 12:12 am

Danny Bates wrote:Why do you give a "premptive strike" for comments made about "bums, beggars and wino's" ??? Is it really "just in case" we start dogging them?

I never thought of it as a preemptive strike. Interesting point.

Danny Bates wrote:I've been playing music full time for many years. I've heard this crap about the music business my whole life from school teachers, direct family members and people like you. I've had musicians come over to my house and they are so familiar with saying crap (like you just said), that they believe it must be true. This is the same negative stuff I've heard my whole life. You should should know that nobody wants to play in a band with a "Captain Bringdown" whiner.

I did not say that it is impossible to make a living at playing music, given the changes that have taken place in the industry. You found a way of doing it, and I'm glad you weren't discouraged by any naysayers.

Danny Bates wrote:Sorry to rant and rave but it's really not the governments fault that people are homeless and can't find a job.

I never said it was the government's fault. But poverty is not entirely the fault of the individual either.

Sure we all make choices in life, but sometimes our choices are limited by the circumstances we live in. Things like family upbringing, what part of the world we live in, our natural abilities, our personalities, levels of education, who we know, the state of the economy, technological change, politics... all of that stuff can have an effect on our life chances.

Danny Bates · Post by **Danny Bates** » 18 Sep 2008 1:30 am

Leslie,

Thanks for putting up with my ranting. I appreciate that.

When I was in High School the school counselor asked me what I want to do for a living. I told him I wanted to be a musician and play music in bars. He said "You can't do that for a living"... Maybe I thought "I'm gonna show him" and took it too far!

LJ Eiffert · Post by **LJ Eiffert** » 18 Sep 2008 2:17 am

I always buy them Bum - Burgers from Jack N The Box for the homeless,it's to much at In - N - Out. God bless the " Welfare Bum ". LJ

Joe Casey · Post by **Joe Casey** » 18 Sep 2008 6:39 am

My dad told me once many moons ago...Its easier to fail than it is to succeed..Failing takes very little effort..I think this thread has run its course..

Jerry Hayes R.I.P. · Post by **Jerry Hayes R.I.P.** » 18 Sep 2008 8:01 am

As the person who started it,I'll have to agree with Joe "this thread has run it's course".... I was just mentioning an incident which in my mind was very sad about a young man who hadn't eaten for a couple of days.

I agree with a lot of what was said and disagree with some but I'll always be there to (if I have the resources) help out someone who just needs something to eat. I think I'd hesitate to give a homeless person money though as it could be used for drugs or liquor.

While in Nashville I dropped a dollar or two in a couple of guitar cases for song requests from some of the people on the street. It was amazing, some of them were really very good and might have been able to make a living at it in the old days......

I was lucky enough to make my living playing music for 22 years from '63 through '85 before moving to Virginia. I was in the southern California area and there were so many places to play and sometimes not enough musicians to handle all the work. I'm not a hot picker by any stretch of the imagination but I was never out of work and never really knew anyone who was. D@amn, I miss those days, I'd give anything to go back to them (except my #5 wife, she'd have to go with me).......JH in Va.

LJ Eiffert · Post by **LJ Eiffert** » 20 Sep 2008 4:58 pm

Jerry Hayes,you made a good point out of your kindness. Thanks for the share. This is in ever city in the world, not just Nashville,Tnn.I've been to many Countries us you know and it will always be like that,homeless people. That's just how live is.But,it is people like you and me and many others who can feel for these Souls. They are some mother baby!, or ,some father who didn't care! Don't be afraid to feed a homeless person.Sincerely,Leo J.Eiffert,Jr.

Edward Meisse · Post by **Edward Meisse** » 21 Sep 2008 9:17 am

You guys are correct. The thread has pretty much run its course. I'm surprised it wasn't locked much earlier. The one thing that I would add to it is that the people who have, in one writer's words, "Chosen," a life of booze and/or drugs on the street are, in my experience, ALWAYS people who have suffered some kind of serious trauma in their lives. That's why so many battlefield veterens are out there. But so are many who were severely abused and/or neglected as children. These are the ones who have been refered to as, "mentally ill," which they are. I knew a couple here in Sonoma county who went broke and ended up on the streets paying for the wife's cancer treatments. I knew another guy who got hit by a car. And it's a difficult situation to get out of. It is correct to be wary of the homeless because so many of them are mentally ill. But to judge them as morally deficient or as somehow less than us doesn't hold water. Many of us would react in the same way to the traumas that so many of them have suffered. And those of us who wouldn't? We don't know enough about why not to make a definitive statement. If we did, we just might conclude that there was something wrong with a person who suffers certain kinds of trauma and doesn't react with mental breakdown. I have nothing but sympathy for the homeless.

ray qualls · Post by **ray qualls** » 21 Sep 2008 10:13 am

Its easy to critize the homeless & poor when you've got a full belly!

Les Anderson · Post by **Les Anderson** » 21 Sep 2008 8:48 pm

A true story here that has left a living memory with me for more than 40 years.

In the seventies a friend of mine, who was a fantastic acoustic bass player and I used to go to down town Vancouver BC and find young people, some not so young, who were playing their instruments on the streets for nickels dimes and quarters and join in with them. At first it was just for something to do until we happened upon a fellow in his middle thirties who was playing a badly bashed up, Yamaha jumbo box acoustic on a street that was a heavy foot traffic tourist section of the city. This man, without stretching the truth one iota, was one of the most truely gifted guitar players I have ever had the pleasure of playing with in my near 60 years as a musician.

Within ten minutes of us joining him, we had more than fifty plus people gathered around and within a half hour, the police were there to shut us down because people were backed up onto the street and blocking vehicle traffic. The guy could play any style of music people requested, from country to classical to pop and jazz and do it absolutely flawless. Sadly, he suffered somewhat from down syndrome and could not concentrate on any one thing for more than four or five minutes: except music. He lived and slept on the streets summer and winter and would not let us give him a room to sleep in. We bought him a couple of sets of new strings and a bag of food whenever we saw him and that was it. We hooked up with this fellow about fifteen times then he just vanished on us and we never saw him again.

Not all street people are bums nor are they non-talented, useless idiots as we so quickly judge them. Some people are there because society has put them there.