Someone explain why Wynn Stewart isn't in the HOF by now

Musical topics not directly related to steel guitar

Moderator: Dave Mudgett

Mitch Drumm
Posts: 2663
Joined: 4 Aug 1998 11:00 pm
Location: Frostbite Falls, hard by Veronica Lake
State/Province: -
Country: United States

Post by Mitch Drumm »

Donny has the right explanation, but do you guys really want Wynn to be a member of an organization that will soon enough contain Kenny Chesney and Shania Twain (or is she already a member of the Hall of Fame?)????

Here is Paycheck explaining the facts of life to Wynn, who apparently has heard it all before:

Image

Here is Wynn in drag, with Bozo Darnell on fiddle. I assume Wynn is playing the role of Sha-Marie, while Bozo sings his composition of the same name, which he and Wynn both recorded. Nice purse, but he needs a dress.


Image
Stephen Gambrell
Posts: 6870
Joined: 20 Apr 2002 12:01 am
Location: Over there
State/Province: -
Country: United States

Post by Stephen Gambrell »

Now, THAT'S country!!!
LJ Eiffert
Posts: 5747
Joined: 4 Jan 2007 9:45 am
Location: California, USA
State/Province: California
Country: United States

Post by LJ Eiffert »

Poor ole " Wynn Stewart " may never make it into The Country Music Hall Of Fame in Nashvile,Tnn. just like " Keith Whitley " won't. But,one thing for sure is,if it wasn't for " Wynn Stewart " we wouldn't have the sounds of Merle Haggaerd,Buck Owens,Tommy Collins,Ferlin Husky,Billy Mize,Hank Penny,Lefty Frizzell and many others from the West Coast that rubbed off into Nashville and than " Keith Whitley " rubbed off on to others Artist like Mark Chesnutt,Alan Jackson,Doug Stone,Joe Diffie,Tracy Lawrence and many more too! Indeed it would be nice to get the History right about The Nashville's Bakersfield Sound. Sincerely in Country Music,Leo J.Eiffert,Jr.
Ron Page
Posts: 5725
Joined: 4 Aug 1998 11:00 pm
Location: Penn Yan, NY USA
State/Province: -
Country: United States

Post by Ron Page »

I think Lefty has many hits before Wynn's time on the scene began...
HagFan
Emmons Lashley LeGrande II
Tommy Minniear
Posts: 1506
Joined: 3 May 1999 12:01 am
Location: Logansport, Indiana
State/Province: Indiana
Country: United States

Post by Tommy Minniear »

Ron,
You took the words right out of my mouth.

Although, songwise they did cross paths once: I'm not sure if Wynn had "Waltz Of The Angels" first and Lefty covered him on it or the other way around.
LJ Eiffert
Posts: 5747
Joined: 4 Jan 2007 9:45 am
Location: California, USA
State/Province: California
Country: United States

Post by LJ Eiffert »

Hello Ron & Tommy, Dig a little deeper into the History of California to Nashville with Wynn Stewart and you'll see what really happen to him in his Career as well as who was first in them names I (Artist) wrote. Leo J.Eiffert,Jr.
Pete Finney
Posts: 1695
Joined: 6 Sep 1998 12:01 am
Location: Nashville Tn.
State/Province: -
Country: United States

Post by Pete Finney »

You can dig around in the "History of California to Nashville" as much as you want and it won't change the fact that Ron and Tommy are absolutely right: Lefty Frizzell had been a huge star for years before Wynn Stewart even made his first record (1954). So it's kind of ridiculous to say "we wouldn't have the sounds" of Lefty without Wynn Stewart...

Which is not to say that Wynn wasn't a great (and very influential) singer and doesn't deserve to be in the Hall of Fame. In my opinion if the only criterion for being in the CMHOF was the influence you had on other artists he would have been in long ago, but as lots of people here have pointed out there's a lot of other factors involved too. Personally I would bet that he'll make it eventually...
User avatar
Joe Casey
Posts: 6185
Joined: 25 Jan 1999 1:01 am
Location: Weeki Wachee .Springs FL (population.9)
State/Province: -
Country: United States

Post by Joe Casey »

I am a native Californian born and raised in Roseville and grew up in Country Music...I can assure many that it was Lefty that influenced many before Wynn became known nationally...Including "Hag"..But while were talking about the Chicken or the EGG, Wynn belongs in any true Country Music Hall Of Fame before many who will enter...I believe also he will eventually make it, maybe not in my lifetime but eventually..However it probably will be a quick mention like Carl Smith got mingled in the audience among the cheap seats. :wink: :cry:
LJ Eiffert
Posts: 5747
Joined: 4 Jan 2007 9:45 am
Location: California, USA
State/Province: California
Country: United States

Post by LJ Eiffert »

Here,let's look at it this way! When " Charles Fuzzy Owens " book comes out than you'll understand more about " Wynn Stewart " and the History book of California Country Music & Musicians,And that Bakersfield Sound.Sincerely in Country Musc, Leo J.Eiffert,Jr.
Kevin Hatton
Posts: 8232
Joined: 3 Jan 2002 1:01 am
Location: Buffalo, N.Y.
State/Province: -
Country: United States

Post by Kevin Hatton »

LJ, did you know Davey Crockett?
LJ Eiffert
Posts: 5747
Joined: 4 Jan 2007 9:45 am
Location: California, USA
State/Province: California
Country: United States

Post by LJ Eiffert »

Hello Kevin Hatton,yes!,Davey Crockett was a cowbot who would ride an alligator to school every morning. It's in the " O " Magazine. LJ
Kevin Hatton
Posts: 8232
Joined: 3 Jan 2002 1:01 am
Location: Buffalo, N.Y.
State/Province: -
Country: United States

Post by Kevin Hatton »

I thought so LJ.
LJ Eiffert
Posts: 5747
Joined: 4 Jan 2007 9:45 am
Location: California, USA
State/Province: California
Country: United States

Post by LJ Eiffert »

" Above & Beyond The Call Of Love " with " Wishful Thinking "; is " Couples Only "; so " If You See My Baby " in " Big City "; the " Play Boy " is " Falling For You "; with " Heartaches For A Dime " and " Another You " would be ; " It's Such A Pretty World Today "; After The Storm "! Now with all of those songs and more it still wouldn't get " Wynn Stewart " into The Country Music Hall Of Fame in Nashville,Tnn? LJ
Ron Page
Posts: 5725
Joined: 4 Aug 1998 11:00 pm
Location: Penn Yan, NY USA
State/Province: -
Country: United States

Post by Ron Page »

Big City? Maybe it's a different song, but that's the name of a Haggard hit which he co-wrote with Dean Holloway and release in about 1981.

No question about Wynn's influence. I was listening to some early Haggard tunes the other day and my thoughts came back to this thread. There was an unmistakable resemblence to Wynn's style in the song I was listening to. My guess is that it was actually a Wynn Stewart song that Merle had recorded. Maybe "If You See My Baby"... but I can't recall. I'm good from about 1959 to 1989, but that was yesterday. :lol:
HagFan
Emmons Lashley LeGrande II
Brint Hannay
Posts: 3960
Joined: 23 Dec 2005 1:01 am
Location: Maryland, USA
State/Province: Maryland
Country: United States

Post by Brint Hannay »

The "Big City" Wynn recorded is a good honky-tonk shuffle, credited to C. Shamley.
"Big city, you mean more to her than me."
LJ Eiffert
Posts: 5747
Joined: 4 Jan 2007 9:45 am
Location: California, USA
State/Province: California
Country: United States

Post by LJ Eiffert »

The " Big City " that " Wynn Stwart " Recorded was on HillTop /Pickwick International.Inc.by Arrangement with Capitol Records (JS-6050-A) And the credit writers was W.Stewart & B.Stwart (Jat Music Pub.Co.) I hope I'm right! I got my fingers cross. Leo J.Eiffert,Jr.
Ron Page
Posts: 5725
Joined: 4 Aug 1998 11:00 pm
Location: Penn Yan, NY USA
State/Province: -
Country: United States

Post by Ron Page »

That's a different song than Hag's "Big City", which is also a shuffle and one of my all-time favorites.

Hag's chorus says:
"...turn me loose, set me free
somewhere in the middle of Montana
Give me all I've got comming to me
Keep your retirement
And your so-called Social Security
Big city turn me loose and set me free"


I didn't know he snitched the title from Wynn's song. :lol:
HagFan
Emmons Lashley LeGrande II
LJ Eiffert
Posts: 5747
Joined: 4 Jan 2007 9:45 am
Location: California, USA
State/Province: California
Country: United States

Post by LJ Eiffert »

So,would " Wynn Stewart's " song " BIG CITY " get him into The Country Music Hall Of Fame in Nashville,Tnn? LJ
User avatar
Jason Odd
Posts: 3140
Joined: 17 Feb 1999 1:01 am
Location: Stawell, Victoria, Australia
State/Province: -
Country: United States

Wynn, just some credit due:

Post by Jason Odd »

Wynn's recording career covered 1954 to the early 1980s.

Not counting compilations, he had eleven albums, not one of them was dud.


In February 1954, at the age of 20, Wynn signed his first recording contract with the independent label, Intro. He recorded "I've Waited a Lifetime" which I believe is the first time somone recorded a Vern Stovall song. Ralph Mooney played lead guitar on this date.

In 1955 a deal with Mercury records fell through, but a big break came with a deal with Capitol Records, for whom he first recorded in January of 1956. That year Wynn cut his first hit "Waltz of the Angels," issued on 7/21/56, and spent one week at number 14 on the country charts; Lefty Frizzell's version on Columbia was a competing record, so they cut into each other's sales.

Session pickers on Wynn's early records included Joe Maphis (guitar), a pre-solo stardom Buck Owens (guitar), Ralph Mooney (steel), Bud Dooley (bass), Pee Wee Adams (drums), Jelly Sanders (fiddle), Eddie Cochran (guitar), Roy Harte (drums), Merrill Moore (piano), Bob Bain (guitar), among others.

In 1958 Wynn went with Challenge Records, recording rockabilly material on their Jackpot Records subsiduary, before going back to country on Challenge.

In May of 1959, he cut "Above and Beyond" on Challenge label, then Buck Owens also recorded "Above and Beyond" and scored higher on the charts. It was later a #1 hit for Rodney Crowell in the late 1980's.

In late 1959, he released "Wishful Thinking", spending 22 weeks on the charts and peaking at #5.
A 1960 duet single with Jan Howard "Wrong Company" spent just two weeks on the chart and peaked at #26.

Through the early 60's Wynn had a string of moderate hit singles.
"Big Big Love" was released on 12/25/61, spending 7 weeks on the charts and peaking at #18.
"Another Day, Another Dollar" was released on 11/24/62 and spent 3 weeks on the charts, peaking at #27.

In 1963 he left Challenge and eventually signed with Capitol.

His first single, "Half of This, Half of That" was released on 11/21/64, and spent 15 weeks on the charts and peaked at #30. This was followed by "I Keep Forgetting That I Forgot About You", which spent 7 weeks on the charts, peaking at #43 (released 10/16/65).

In 1967, "It's Such a Pretty World Today" hit the charts for 22 weeks, with two weeks at Number #1 and was also voted Song of the Year by the Academy of Country Music.
"Cause I Have You" was released on 7/15/67, spending 16 weeks on the charts and peaking at #9. "That's the Only Way To Cry" was released on 8/5/67, spending 3 weeks on the charts, peaking at #68.
"Love's Gonna Happen To Me" was released on 11/11/67 and spent 16 weeks on the charts, peaking at #7.
"Something Pretty" was released on 4/20/68, spending 13 weeks on the charts and peaking at #10.
"In Love" was released on 8/24/68 and peaked at #16
"Strings" was released on 12/14/68 and peaked at #29
"Let the Whole World Sing It With Me" was released on 4/5/69 and peaked at #20
"World Wide Travelin Man" was released on 7/26/69 and peaked at #19
"Yours Forever" was released on 11/15/69 and peaked at #47
"You Don't Care What Happens To Me" was released on 4/11/70 and peaked at #55
"It's a Beautiful Day" was released on 9/12/70 and peaked at #13
"Heavenly" was released on 1/2/71 and peaked at #32
"Baby, It's Yours" was released on 5/1/71 and peaked at #55
"Hello Little Rock" was released on 9/8/71 and peaked at #53

Wynn left Capitol and signed with RCA in Nashville in 1972, "Paint Me a Rainbow" issued in late '72, peaked at #49.
"Love Ain't Worth a Dime Unless It's Free" from mid 1973 #51. "It's Raining in Seattle"/"If I Were You" peaked at #62 that same year.

In 1975 he signed with Playboy Records, the first single "Lonely Rain", peaked at #80 after 9 weeks on the charts in 1975.
There was also a top ten hit with "After the Storm," from '76, peaking at #8 after spending 14 weeks on the charts.
While a new cut of "Sing a Sad Song" from late 1976 went on peak at #19.

In 1978, Wynn started his own independent label, WIN Records
His first single on WIN "Eyes as Big as Dallas", was released on 12/23/78 and peaked at #37. This was followed up by "Could I Talk You Into Loving Me Again", released on 6/9/79 and peaked at #59.

So, not a lot of number one hits, but he was no slouch.
Clyde Mattocks
Posts: 3042
Joined: 26 May 2005 12:01 am
Location: Kinston, North Carolina, USA
State/Province: North Carolina
Country: United States

Post by Clyde Mattocks »

The song. PLAYBOY ("They call me a playboy") on Playboy records was intertwined throughout a TV
documentary about Playboy Magazine and the Playboy
Mansion. This was a great performance by Wynn.
Anyone who has ever heard Kenny Vernon do this song will attest that he also does it justice.
LeGrande II, Nash. 112, Fender Twin Tone Master, Session 400, Harlow Dobro, R.Q.Jones Dobro
User avatar
Johnne Lee Ables
Posts: 398
Joined: 16 Nov 2000 1:01 am
Location: Minnesota, USA
State/Province: Minnesota
Country: United States

Post by Johnne Lee Ables »

Clyde Mattocks wrote:By the time Wynn came along, the field was pretty crowded with very capable singers.
My $00.02,

(I hesitate to admit I'm a 'Left Coast Okie'...) ; - }

Wynn was absolutely NOT among the "...capable singers..."! Wynn was a singer, songwriter, band leader and an original!

The following is more than adequate support for Wynn's inclusion in ANY HOF!!!

"Wynn's sound was what influenced Buck and me both," Merle Haggard says...

Although, honestly, the CMHOF has little to do with 'country music' anymore and Wynn is probably better off not being in the CMHOF!

Johnne Lee
Justice S10-Pro 5x4 C6
Roland Cube 80GX
Wonderful Wife


"In the course of a long life a wise man will be prepared to abandon his baggage several times."
User avatar
Johnne Lee Ables
Posts: 398
Joined: 16 Nov 2000 1:01 am
Location: Minnesota, USA
State/Province: Minnesota
Country: United States

I almost forgot...

Post by Johnne Lee Ables »

Since this is "The Steel Guitar Forum"...

Wynn Stewart inspired tremendous loyalty among his fellow musicians and artists. For years after his death, legendary steel guitar player Ralph Mooney would identify himself as “Wynn Stewart’s steel player.”

THAT ALONE should place him in the CMHOF, but the CMHOF has really become the 'easy-listening', '70s rock', 'sex appeal' HOF.

Comparing Wynn to "...capable singers..." is like comparing Vince Gill to Trace Adkins!!!!

Just MHO...
Justice S10-Pro 5x4 C6
Roland Cube 80GX
Wonderful Wife


"In the course of a long life a wise man will be prepared to abandon his baggage several times."
User avatar
Jeff Evans
Posts: 1624
Joined: 4 Apr 1999 1:01 am
Location: Cowtown and The Bill Cox Outfit
State/Province: -
Country: United States

Post by Jeff Evans »

The boxed set reveals that other celebrity steel cats sneaked onto a few sessions:

http://tinyurl.com/5thcnx
User avatar
Johnne Lee Ables
Posts: 398
Joined: 16 Nov 2000 1:01 am
Location: Minnesota, USA
State/Province: Minnesota
Country: United States

Yer' oh so right, JE...

Post by Johnne Lee Ables »

Jeff Evans wrote:The boxed set reveals that other celebrity steel cats sneaked onto a few sessions:

http://tinyurl.com/5thcnx
More than a few, I'd bet!

Wynn was one of the very best and was always surrounded by the VERY best. A spot in Wynn's band was considered a real plum. As I'm sure y'all know Buck got his start as a guitar player in Wynn's band. Merle was Wynn's bass player until Wynn made him a star by giving him "Sing A Sad Song."

Wynn's drinking and Anti-Nashville approach - along with his Vegas night club - are what kept him out of the CMHOF initially. And now, his impact is only appreciated by those people who really care about the music instead of the 'celebrity'!

Johnne Lee
Justice S10-Pro 5x4 C6
Roland Cube 80GX
Wonderful Wife


"In the course of a long life a wise man will be prepared to abandon his baggage several times."
User avatar
Jeff Evans
Posts: 1624
Joined: 4 Apr 1999 1:01 am
Location: Cowtown and The Bill Cox Outfit
State/Province: -
Country: United States

Post by Jeff Evans »