Soloing after a hot shot guitarist

Don McClellan · Post by **Don McClellan** » 14 Mar 2008 8:53 pm

Here's another version http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jwm-vxGg ... re=related

Post by **Dave Mudgett** » 14 Mar 2008 8:58 pm

Dave Mudgett, Thanks, I probably should not have said that but I certainly meant it.

Said what? Nothing you said surprised or bothered me. I think different views are what make the world go around.

I already agreed he's a fine player, and his technique is obviously at a very high level. I emphatically do not, and did not, argue that this has no substance. Still, aesthetically, it's a bit overblown, to my tastes. I might like it more live, in the moment. I certainly have no problem with an extended solo.

I also meant my comment about preferring Hendrix' version - again, no insult at all. This is just personal preference. I've probably heard a hundred or more versions of "Little Wing" - playing "Little Wing" is a guitar player thing. But I've never heard anything that approached Hendrix - again to my tastes. There's an aspect of delicateness and finesse that Jimi had that - again to my tastes - trumps everything I have heard.

If it was set up properly - right guitar, amp, situation - I would not fear being onstage with a player like this. I have been onstage with some pretty fine guitar players (mostly as a guitar player), and it's not a contest. If they out-technique me, that's fine. Geez - it wouldn't be the first time.

Don McClellan · Post by **Don McClellan** » 14 Mar 2008 9:02 pm

Dave, I misread your post, I thought it said Don but it said Dan and I thought you were talking about another thing. Sorry. My mistake.

Jim Phelps · Post by **Jim Phelps** » 14 Mar 2008 9:07 pm

Dave Mudgett... talking about Jimi, just curious; what do you think of SRV's version? Here's one for y'all, you can compare it with the others here:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zAG-kX_I ... re=related

*edit*- whoops, it's got a little Third Stone From The Sun after Wing too.

Actually, I really like hearing as many different versions of the same song as I can find, I like to hear all the different interpretations, even if I like some better than others or don't care for some at all, it's interesting anyway.

Post by **Dave Mudgett** » 14 Mar 2008 10:09 pm

I'm a pretty big SRV fan, and I like the way he approaches the song generally. But I have to say I really prefer the song with vocals and a bit more restraint than this version. There are a bunch of other SRV versions out there.

Just personal preference. To me, Hendrix just did everything, and it fit together in a way that is hard to touch.

You're in luck if you want to listen to different versions of "Little Wing". Just search for little wing on youtube:

“little wing” video results 1 - 20 of about 4,080

Now, some of these are Neil Young's "Little Wing", but versions number in the thousands. Jimi, SRV, G3 (Vai et al.), Tuck and Patti, Monte Montgomery, Carlos Vamos, Skid Row, Clapton and Crow, Sting & Gil Evans, Laurence Juber, Pearl Jam, and I haven't even gotten past the second page of 200. There are tons of very fine versions out there, to my tastes.

Jim Phelps · Post by **Jim Phelps** » 14 Mar 2008 10:24 pm

Thank Heavens for YouTube!... *sniff!*

John Billings · Post by **John Billings** » 15 Mar 2008 2:55 am

From Wikipedia:
Monte Montgomery is an American musician and singer-songwriter who is renowned for his live electric acoustic guitar performances.
Montgomery's initial claim to fame happened on January 29th, 1999 when he appeared on PBS's Austin City Limits original program (episode #2411 originally aired on April 17th, 1999) and recorded a five-song set (which included his original composition "When Will I," co-written with Scott Byers) with former band members Chris Maresh (bass) and Phil Bass (drums). Since then, Montgomery has gained favorable attention for his unique and energetic live performances nationwide, which many of Montgomery's devoted fans (affectionately known as "Montiacs") travel far and wide to witness. Montgomery has graced the covers of the 2005 November issue of Acoustic Guitar, the 2005 Winter edition of Frets, and the 2006 December issue of Guitar Club (Italy) Magazine while being hailed by Guitar Player Magazine in 2004 as one of "The Top 50 All-Time Greatest Guitarists" as well as listed atop of Guitar One Magazine’s "Top 10 Best Undiscovered Guitarists in America" list in the late 1990s. Montgomery has also won the "Best Acoustic Guitar Player" award at the SXSW Festival’s Austin Music Awards seven years in a row (1998-2004), the only artist to have ever done so. On January 24th, 2004, Alvarez Guitars unveiled the MMY1 Monte Montgomery Signature Guitar, a model based on Montgomery's 1987 Alvarez-Yairi DY62C Acoustic-Electric Guitar. Due to his intense playing style, Montgomery has broken the neck of his DY62C four times -- the MMY1 has a reinforced neck to prevent such breakage.[1]
[edit]Official Monte Montgomery Discography

1993 Lost & Found (Meridian Records - CD 0093 - Studio LP)
1998 1st and Repair (Heart Music - 0020-60016-2 - Studio LP)
1998 Last Goodbye (Heart Music - 0020-60016-2R1 - Studio Single)
1999 Mirror (Heart Music - 0020-60020-2 - Studio LP)
2001 Wishing Well (Texas Music Group - TMG 8001 - Studio LP)
2001 Tug of War (Texas Music Group - TMG-PRO-02 - Studio Single)
2003 New & Approved (Harmonic Records - HR701 - Live LP)
2003 The Story of Love (Harmonic Records - HR702 - Studio LP)
2004 Architect (Harmonic Records - HR703 - Studio LP)
2005 Monte Montgomery at WorkPlay (Harmonic Records - HR704 - Live LP)
2005 Monte Montgomery at WorkPlay (Harmonic Records - HR705 - Live DVD)
[edit]

Tony Prior · Post by **Tony Prior** » 15 Mar 2008 4:52 am

Well, pretty good question.!

I had never heard of Monte before this and all I can say is wow what a talent.

I think if I were in a band situation with a player of this caliber I would not actually solo but rather play strait up melody lines.

Steve Morley · Post by **Steve Morley** » 15 Mar 2008 6:21 am

He's a very good player, and I enjoyed listening to this version, so thanks for posting it. Several forumites mentioned something along the lines of "fitting in" to the set, and I agree. As a young musician, I watched guests sit-in, and many times, the guest lets someone else in the band go first on a solo, and then takes a different tack, so to speak, whether it's a less frenetic solo, chord melody, or a string-snapping, fretboard-flaming sweep-picking-fest. Sonny Landreth sitting in with Dire Straits, Jeff Pevar with Little Feat, Jim Weider with The Band are good examples. You know the first time you hear these guys play, that you're not hearing everything they've got - they're "guests"; that there's a v-e-r-y "deep bench" (lots of playing experience and know-how) behind them. Likewise, when I heard these three examples, the soloists in the band (or other guests), seemed to accommodate the guests' style: if the guests was a slide wiz, then the band guitarist would play something else - they know how to do this!

Me? I just plod along and try and stay out of the way - less is more, 'cause that's all I have!

Best,

Steve in CT

David Mason · Post by **David Mason** » 15 Mar 2008 8:04 am

I have a YouTube playlist that's actually just 15 different "Little Wings".... Monte's is way low on the list, frankly. I know he's technically and musically gifted, so it's a kind of goofy question as to whether he "plays well with others." There's no way to tell - in this context he's the sole guitarist, so he's trying to kill. I'd be happy to jam with him, I sure do know this song.

The tone on this is sketchy, but holy, holy cow...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4MViw7ri7Z4

Billy Wilson · Post by **Billy Wilson** » 15 Mar 2008 9:24 am

Don, I would love to hear what you would play on Little Wing but i don't know if I could wait that long.

Donny Hinson · Post by **Donny Hinson** » 15 Mar 2008 9:50 am

...regarding how one would deal with soloing following a musician with chops that I would have no chance at meeting.

Dan, to me, it would be entirely dependent on what the particular player played. My comments were centered around what Monte and Derek were playing in those clips posted, not their respective total abilities.

I could play alongside the greatest musician in the world, the one with the most fearsome chops in existence, as long as he kept it simple. But if he was really "stretching out", I'd be seriously out of place - and that's my point. Even Buddy Emmons admitted right here on the Forum that there's no way he could hang in there with some of the real greats of Jazz.

Now if he can't, where does that leave players like you and me???

Hopefully, out in the audience, where we probably belong. I've played with some staggeringly good musicians myself, and most have been gracious enough not to make a complete fool out of me by calling songs far over my abilities. Not to say I'm not impressed with players that have great feeling, but I'm also not one who would believe that any simple two or three notes that I (or anyone else) might play would trump someone with serious chops in front of an astute audience.

ajm · Post by **ajm** » 15 Mar 2008 9:55 am

So what is wrong with using a ton of volume and distortion?

I know almost nothing about Derek Trucks, but the recording and crappy computer speakers (at least mine) probably made it sound that way. Given the context that Derek was playing in he may not have had much of a choice, either. As for distortion, it's an effect. Some people choose not to use it, some do. Volume, distortion, speed, tone and note choices are all a part of the total package. Distortion alone might kill a musical statement, but just because something is distorted does not automatically disqualify it (well, maybe for some it does). For me, it's all a part of the total package. Just as "Spirit in the Sky" would not sound the same without the fuzz guitar, "Teach Your Children" would not sound the same with electric rhythm guitars courtesy of Metallica. JMHO.

As for 10 minute solos on any instrument, I'm probably with the crowd here. I'd much rather come up with a killer 3-4 minute SONG that doesn't even have a solo than to have all of that technique. (However, don't get me wrong. I'd love to have the chops of a Steve Vai or Brent Mason.) I love to see chops, but even with my favorites it seems like I get bored really quickly if they don't start changing something up. JMHO, but I think one of the reasons that Joe Satriani has the crowd that he does is that most of his songs are 4-5 minutes. Come up with a melody and arrangement, whip off a solo, repeat the melody, and get out before the crowd gets bored.

Mark van Allen · Post by **Mark van Allen** » 15 Mar 2008 7:41 pm

I've had the immense good fortune to be able to play numerous gigs and shared bills with both Derek and Monte, and they're both incredible in their own right.
Monte's average gig includes a lot of great songwriting, fronting a strong band with a killer groove, and pleasing a legion of fans. When he opened up for my band Blueground Undergrass here in Atlanta, our fans who mostly had not heard of him were extremely impressed, supportive, and bought a lot of Monte CDs. In turn when we opened for him on his home turf in Texas, there were lines around the block waiting hours to get in. Trust me, see him live with a band, amazing. The "Eric Johnson on acoustic" reference was also the closest I could come to describing him to friends. His many fans were also very kind to our band.
Derek Trucks is one of the few guitarists I've played with who demonstrate truly evolved mastery in tone, touch and feel. When he played a CD release show with me at 17 or so, watching him made me feel much the same as I had when sitting in front of Buddy Emmons, (really!)- his touch on the strings, the way he symbiotically develops sound from his guitar, is deeply moving and incredibly special. Every time I've seen or played with him, since, he seems deeper into and more connected with music. About the sweetest guy in the world as well.
Next to these two, my style strikes me as fairly simplistic and under-evolved, but I have no fear of "following" them- music isn't the "cutting contest" to me that it seems to be in some of the backwater bars I've played at. Being surrounded by gifted improvisers is highly motivating and rewarding. Both of these guys are very accepting of fellow musicians, and they both love steel guitar.

This thread reinforces my long-held desire to always try to play with more evolved players than myself, for many mostly selfish reasons.

Mark van Allen · Post by **Mark van Allen** » 15 Mar 2008 7:49 pm

And on the other hand, just last night I played a gig with a very fine guitarist, who has a good command of a wide range of styles and chops. But some of his friends were in the crowd, and he insisted on playing LONG solos, 4 or 5 choruses, then sometimes again in the same song... a whole lot of "look at me" and not so much musical interplay.

As the night wore on I found myself wanting to play less and less. If it had been Derek, he would have said a lot more with a whole lot less. I've tried to absorb some of that mindset.

Stephen Gambrell · Post by **Stephen Gambrell** » 15 Mar 2008 9:30 pm

Mark, did you ever get to hear Derek as a KID? He used to play up here in Greenville when he was about 12 or 13---AND IT WAS ALL THERE!!!
Yeah, he's learned, and developed more, but that incredible style has always been there.
And Monte Montgomery is totally off the chain! His talent amazes me, even after hearing him a bunch.
Mark, I heard you were back with Blueground. Any truth to it?

Matt Dawson · Post by **Matt Dawson** » 16 Mar 2008 4:12 am

The one time I jammed with Derek Trucks I will NEVER forget. I was doing a few gigs in Florida with a local player Tommy Talton who had been in Cowboy & the Greg Allman Band. We went round Derek Trucks house `cos Tommy was friendly with Derek`s dad. Derek (who was maybe 10 or 11 at the time) was outside playing basketball. We were jamming on acoustic guitars when Derek came in and nonchalently grabbed an SG that was lying on the chair. It was like Duane was alive again. His playing was so mature and perfect in every way. Astonishing. He was really friendly too, just a regular kid. He seems to have developed his own voice and moved on from the obvious Duane comparisons. For me a guy like that is beyond meaningful criticism. What a monster tasteful player.
Matt

Chip Fossa · Post by **Chip Fossa** » 16 Mar 2008 5:41 pm

whats's with YouTube?
The streaming is awful.

Mark van Allen · Post by **Mark van Allen** » 17 Mar 2008 10:04 am

Sorry for the temporary hijack, but yes, Stephen, I'm back with Blueground Undergrass. Reformed with the original lineup and the best rhythm section, we've played a couple of great shows and it's feeling great. They have the new calendar (and a clip of my version of Wichita Lineman) up on the myspace site: http://www.myspace.com/bluegroundundergrass
Should be a great ride!

Bo Legg · Post by **Bo Legg** » 19 Mar 2008 6:55 pm

I think Monte Montgomery and Carlos Vamos are great but Adrian you’re still the best.
http://www.adrianlegg.com/mp3/NotRemotelyBlueIntro.mp3