What has happened to Nashville’s Musicians?

[Jerry Hayes R.I.P.]

My personal thoughts about it all comes in an old question I once heard, which when you think about it (except for a few exceptions), is right on the money.....

"What is the definition of a star?"....

Answer: "Someone who's not good enough to be a sideman!"

Just think about how often that's true.....JH in Va.

[Scott Shipley]

Speaking from the standpoint of a sideman-turned-frontman, I'd like to say that just because a sideman works for a moderately talented artist doesn't mean he's a hack. It only means he's smart enough to know which end is up. Lots and LOTS of headaches and expense in fronting your own thing. Sometimes I miss being able to just show up for bus call, crawl in my bunk with a walkman and learn the tunes enroute for a gig that will make my rent, and then forget the whole thing by the time the 45 foot coffin rolls back across Gnashville city limits.
Pete is right. Not all the music coming out of music city is crap. There are (as at any point in the past) a lot of indie and "underground" artists making records in town, as well as many of the "classic" artists still recording too. Don't bury it yet, and don't underestimate the IQ's of the sidemen. I applaud anyone ANYWHERE who is able to make a living doing what they love.

[David L. Donald]

The serious sidemen get seen and are known.
Brent Mason, John Jorgenson, Jerry Douglas as examples

But also artist/pickers who work a lot on the side
are the ones with the biggest names
as it also was back in the day.
Alison Krauss would be analog to Floyd Cramer in some ways
A recording artist, but also a sideman on many dates

But as in the past there are still many nameless journeyman pickers.
There may be something to be
said for the 'vanity album' that gets a pickers
name out to the cognicenti who impress the
general punters by knowing him or her etc.

[Pete Finney]

I was just thinking about some of the stereotypes I see of Nashville and Nashville musicians on this thread (and others) and I gotta say they just don't reflect the city that I actually live in, and the people I often hang out with.

[David L. Donald]

Pete there is the Nashville scene insiders see,
and the view from outa town. I think, in general,
this post is relating to the outside looking in, observation point.

I never met Hank Garland, even though we are related,
but I know of him as a player. I am sure his friends,
and Jimmy Bryant knew him in much different ways.
But MORE people would know him from my observational point of view.

[Bob Hoffnar]

Pete,
That band of your sounds like a pile of fun. I'm in a similar scene in NYC. Last night I played at a local bar in Brooklyn with guys that work for Rick Ruebin, Nora Jones, Tom Waites, Ornette Coleman and on an on. The pro musician's life is a heck of allot more fun and fulfilling then this thread lets on.
The thing I find silly on this thread is the concept that that there is some sort of organized force controlling everything. The major labels really don't know what they are doing and are basicly following radio into the tar pits. Musicians and artists have way more control than ever on what music they release. The most common record deal is 50/50 production (artist)/distribution (Label). Radio is in bad shape with clearchannel using that fabulous enron corporate model. There certainly are plenty of artists blowing them for a piece of that shrinking crap pie but the vast majority of full time musicians have nothing to do with that scene.

As far as the top Nashville recording guys go one of the main joys in playing music is the chance to play with great musicians. Imagine having your day job be going into the most perfect recording studio in the world and playing with some of the greatest musicians that ever lived who happen to be super sweet interesting people. Oh yea, and you are getting rich doing it. For the few that have the ability to work on that level (Not me, you Nashville guys are scary good !) things don't seem so bad.

I think it might be a good idea for some of you guys that think everything has gone down the crapper would be to get rid of your tv and switch to satelite radio. The world of music is a very big place and there is plenty of great music to be found outside of the pop music feed lot.

[Pete Finney]

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[Bob Hoffnar]

I keep running into indie rock bands coming up from Nashville. That scene seems pretty strong also. Those musicians have barely even heard of new country music. But they do love there Hank and George Jones.

A great example of a musician in Nashville who floats between different scenes is Fats Kaplin. That guy turns up everywhere and always plays something perfect. Last I talked to him he bought some pointy shoes and an oud in Turkey and is working on that.

As far as my side project bands hipness factor goes we are doing pretty bad. We are wearing matching shirts, cowboy hats and trying to play old country music !

[David L. Donald]

Bob, in the Big Apple that is so rare
that it has become hip again.

Pete, not everyone can get to and stay pickin' in Nashville
long enough to get to know it's various scenes.

But that does not invalidate the out side observer's
view of "Nashville Cats". It's a different crop of cats since,
the song, but like the song says they's pick since they's
babies.

People outside certainly DO know
the cream that rises to the top.

My point is that the creamiest pickers are also
smaller time front men on their own projects,
and that is one reason they are better known.

There are some killer players in Nahville,
that I saw on visiting, got to jam with a couple,
during my 4 day visit.
BUT most people have no clue of who they are.

And example two very fine bass players made and impression.
One guy I swapped off with on broadway
and then saw on the opry next night.
The other was Dennis Crouch.

A 3rd fine player plays with John England,
but in this case the WHOLE band impressed me
a bit more than the individual, and I was more
steel oriented that night, even if I sat in on upright bass.


Great players, but even Dennis isn't really well known
outside of that scene to the common Joe.

Same for the awesome Andy Rauch. One of the finest guitarists,
but no where near the name recognition of Brent Mason.
But you know how fast I'd buy and album with them dualing it out and Dennis on bass...
______ look between the lines.

[Pete Finney]

[quote]

[David L. Donald]

Yes Andy Reiss. Again from looking in,
I know who he is, most don't,
but couldn't even get the name spelled right. DRAT!
I did see him live with the Time Jumpers.
Awesome player, friendly guy.

Andy, I can easily see trading licks with Brent and J.Jorgenson
and when the're not doing pure twang rock,
standing toe to toe and not giving an inch,
and on the hipper jazzier side going for it
with a touch more originality.

He also was on Mandy Barnetts 2nd album that
Owen Bradley was producing when he passed away.

A lovely album if you want to have a minor retro music career.
But a bad misstep away from the country market of that time.

But to work with Owen musta over ridden that concern,
and sadly and incredable voice is without a 3rd album
since 1999. Pigeonholded.

Her 1st album was close on the market then,
but miss programmed IMHO.

Another Nashville monster talent,
but still local except for those Opry radio dates.
To an mostly aging demographic.

[David Mason]

We're doomed...


I think the ability and capacity to be a great musician is almost entirely different than the ability and capacity to be a big star. There are some slight similarities in persistence in the face of failure and enough ego to keep you out from under the bed on a bad day, but one has to do the the love of music and the other has to do with the love of fame. They can and do occur in varying levels within the same person - Hendrix had to be something of a ham, there are a number of big stars from Barbara Mandrell to Justin Timberlake who are highly skilled musicians, and just a few major stars who aren't (gulp, gulp).

You have to consider a player's own desires before categorizing them as underappreciated - certainly, any half-intelligent steeler has got to realize they have to sing and write songs if they want to be a "star", seemingly most really don't. There are people like Clapton who seems to have calculated his trajectory quite finely, blowing off the "virtuoso" label for the singer/songwriter hat (and song credit residuals, hmmm), all while appearing shy and private (relative terms, those). Many of the best musicians in the world are playing in their living rooms right now, and you never will hear of them - that's fine too.

Radio is in bad shape with clearchannel using that fabulous enron corporate model. There certainly are plenty of artists blowing them for a piece of that shrinking crap pie

Great visuals, Bob H. - have you ever considered politics?

[David L. Donald]

We're doomed...
Many of the best musicians in the world are playing in their living rooms right now, and you never will hear of them - that's fine too.

Radio is in bad shape with clearchannel using that fabulous enron corporate model. There certainly are plenty of artists blowing them for a piece of that shrinking crap pie

Great visuals, Bob H. - have you ever considered politics?

Or TV Evangelism.


Yes yes, GREAT visuals!