Dixie Chicks on ACL

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Bill Dobkins
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Post by Bill Dobkins »

Chris LeDrew wrote:I'd love the Dixie Chicks if Natalie would keep her mouth shut when she isn't singing. The way she represents the band with her immature bull#$%^ during public appearances is pathetic beyond compare, and it affects my perception of the music, right or wrong.
I really liked the old Chicks. Until Natalie takes a ride I could care less about them. There are better singers out there (A lot right in our neighborhoods)
that don't have the snotty attitude.As far as I'm concerned she has ruined two very talented gals.
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Post by Roger Rettig »

Theresa,

I guess you're not obliged to, but I'd like to hear a rationalisation of your opinion of the Chicks. I know you like country music from your previous posts - where, exactly, do they fall short?

:?

RR
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Post by David Doggett »

I think it is a bit insulting to the others to imply that they could do better than Natalie, and that she has somehow drug them helpless and unwilling into bad music and political controversy. They picked Natalie to be their lead singer because they thought she had the talent to be their equal. I don't think they have regretted that decision for a minute. And in the interviews I have seen, they seem in no way ashamed or apologetic about her, either musically or politically. They completely agree with her and support her. They all seem to be very close, and of like mind. I think they were a little naive, and probably surprised by the political controversy. But they have stood by their opinions, maintained a united front, and kept doing what they have always done best, which is create an interesting and creative blend of roots and contemporary music with their own unique stamp.
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David L. Donald
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Post by David L. Donald »

"a political correctness litmus test"

Yeah what a wonderful set of lines of demarcation,
for out of countrol 'fear of the others'.
Different, of course, for EACH person.

So they sing something that brings someone into disrepute,
like their ex-significant other from hell,
Then that is not good, nail them for it.
Don't you DARE sing about your life,
cause others were involved,
and the guilty MUST remain nameles.

Or even worse THEY DISAGREE WITH ME.
Well then their music can't be good either,
becauseon some fundamental level,
it MUST be reflecting their differences.

So what if being different is enshrined
for all Americans, and that includes their music.

Gee, they disagree with me, I can NOT like them
for any reason now,
and certainly I must help run them out of town,
or at least into penury.

Makes no difference if they are talented,
good hearted and professional,
the music doesn't matter;
they disagree with me.

And I am not talking about the Chicks here...
An example.
Not the 1st time this has happened,
it's just the latest.

If I judged an artists music by their public statements,
and their stances on subjects and actions,
then my music collection would ALSO be quite thin.

So how many have Spade Cooly in their collection...?
DLD, Chili farmer. Plus bananas and papaya too.

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Theresa Galbraith
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Post by Theresa Galbraith »

Natalie sings to nasally! :)
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Steinar Gregertsen
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Post by Steinar Gregertsen »

I wonder if this controversy would have lasted so long if it had been a male artist who made those statements. I don't think so. But these are "chicks", and chicks are not supposed to be controversial,- a little on the wild side, sure, we want them a little hot and we love Gretchen, but never controversial. No sir, can't have any of that.

If it had been someone like Alan Jackson I'm sure it would have been forgotten a long time ago. "Oh well, you know old Alan, he's a basically a good guy but says some weird stuff after a few beers..... wink wink, nudge nudge" and all would have been over.

Anyway, I don't have any of their albums but I've enjoyed most of what I've heard. Sounds to me like they can sing and play rings around most of their peers in the same genre. Not to mention the lame and fabricated 'pop divas' out there...

Steinar
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Rick Alexander
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Post by Rick Alexander »

Sounds to me like they can sing and play rings around most of their peers in the same genre. Not to mention the lame and fabricated 'pop divas' out there...
Yes they can. All 3 of them are excellent musicians and singers. They sing from the heart, which not too many do these days. As far as the "incident" is concerned, what ever happened to the right to free speech? It shouldn't matter whether you agree or disagree with them, as Americans the constitution guarantees us free speech. Jay Leno exercises that right every night and trashes everybody - particularly the president - and I don't hear any hue and cry about him.

The Chicks have shown courage and grace under fire, and emerged from all the undeserved persecution stronger and better. Not many can make such a claim, and to me they represent what is best in all of us.


RA
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Alvin Blaine
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Post by Alvin Blaine »

Wasn't Natalie a graduate of the South Plains College music program. One of the rare schools where you can get a degree in Country Music and Bluegrass.
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David L. Donald
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Post by David L. Donald »

I agree she is nasally on some songs,
but not all of them.

But if you compare much of country music,
to soul and jazz almost ALL sound quite nasally.
Rock and pop slide in both directions.
The High Lonsome Sound sure had a nasal thing
in it, in most incarnations.

Free speach for Americans is garunteed,
and I have never seen it written that it's
ONLY on American soil. Some want to insert
that clause... for those they disagree with,
it seems.

If you never leave the USA you might be
profoundly shocked talking to inteligent
people of other countries these days.

I meet a LARGE cross section of english
speaking people from around the world in
my vacation resort world here.
From backpackers and "Rainbow" post Gen X types,
to retirees and $1,000 suit business pros.
Familys on vacation and jet set high flyers.

The Chicks are surprisingly well liked world wide.
They are liked for their music,
as proponents of a pure american style
that is accessable to most english speakers.

But THEY came to people's attention because of
the stink about one sentence said in England,
not Bagdad or Kabul or Aceh etc.
I would estimate that 80% of non-americans
coming here, back them up, and applaud their
use of free speach.

But hey, the're foreigners they don't count...right?

The general consensus is, that it is not understood why they are being hassled at all.
They like their music, it gets across to people with less than stellar english vocabulary,
and they have said publicly, what so many in other parts of the world think.
I have met people from around 35-40 countries
in the last year or so, not an inconsequencial number.

And don't imagine this is only french or islamists,
or socialist europeans or what ever whipping boy
from abroad fits todays bill of fare.

It is not area or age dependent,
nor is it religiously driven.
They like their music and their stance.

And it would serve no purpose to make this up.

It is stated for informative purposes,
not for a particular axe to grind.
Parocial isolationism is harmful,
to those isolating themselves
and to those being ignored.

Those that know their music
also know why they heard of them
in the first place, and wonder
why 'Americans' act like this.

Ya know Jay Leno's jokes, and those of
many other comics, lambasting 'the powers that be'
at any given time ARE regularly shown on TV world wide.
So why is that OK?
Because the studio is in Burbank or NYC?

But dare step one foot off USA soil
and say the same thing, and as a WOMAN,
and all hell breaks loose...

It is funny though,
all the worldwide press they got,
gave them a world wide following too.
And respect that they don't seem to get
as players at home.

What does THAT say about US?

Music and culture are ultimately intertwined,
and with socio-economic realities in the whole world.

Oddley enough the Chicks have been great ambasadors
for a common, outwardly looking, and caring American personality.
That has been sorely lacking of late.
Thankfully there is someone doing ANYTHING
besides Hiphop getting world wide attention.

Partly because their music resonates with people
of more than JUST one segmentof the many segments
of the American music scene.

No doubt some of your milages WILL vary,
but don't shoot the messenger.
I am an observer and see what I see,
and from a different vantage point.
DLD, Chili farmer. Plus bananas and papaya too.

Real happiness has no strings attached.
But pedal steels have many!
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Charlie McDonald
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Post by Charlie McDonald »

All I can say is, give a girl from Lubbock an 80,000 watt PA, and she'll embarass somebody.

I think Steiner has a good insight; bottled in blond, they're safe and fun-loving. When they vary from that image, it's dangerous to us.

Once, it appeared that jazz greats would be the ambassadors of a 'uniquely American' sound. It was not so much political as artistic. As jazz moved from be-bop to fusion, the sound was less accessible (IMO), and more international.
Altho the roots of country are Celtic (anyone?), folk developed into a pretty much American sound, it's something much of the world could embrace.
Enter the Dixie Chicks. The sisters wanted to broaden their audience, and took a chance.

I suppose it is, in the end, hard to divorce music from politics.

Hey Theresa, you don't have to explain a thing.
I don't like Toby Keith, and am largely unfamiliar with his music. It's just my political side and his fighting side.
Those that say don't know; those that know don't say.--Buddy Emmons
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David L. Donald
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Post by David L. Donald »

Two of my favorite pictures here in Thailand are:

King Bhumibol with Elvis and Leslie Carron.

And one with the King and Satchmo, and their trumpets.

Benny Goodman and Louis Armstrong were great musical ambasadors.
DLD, Chili farmer. Plus bananas and papaya too.

Real happiness has no strings attached.
But pedal steels have many!
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Post by Brint Hannay »

I don't like Toby Keith's music, so I don't face any potential conflictedness because of his politics! :D

As to Theresa, she's said more than once that she's never been a fan of the Chicks, which would include before the "incident".
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Post by Ron Page »

Barry Blackwood wrote:Theresa and Ron, would this be akin to not going to see any Tom Cruise movies since you learned he was a Scientologist?
I don't know, Barry. I saw Collateral. Was that before or after he revealed himself as a world-class nut case?

I like the Oceans 11...12... movies despite not liking any of Looney Clooney's politics. Had to laugh when he came home to KY to "help" his dad not get elected to congress.

Like I say... to many other choices.

The Chicks are one of those gifts that keeps on giving.
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Mark Eaton
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Post by Mark Eaton »

It was the shock factor that precipitated the backlash.

The Dixie Chicks had become the most successful female act in the history of country music. One of the most successful acts, period. No one could ever recall any public political statements from them in the past. Country music, historically, is identified with "red state" voters. So when Natalie blurted out her statement, folks whom thought she was "one of them" were shocked and disappointed.

Steve Earle stands on stage and makes statements way more controversial than what Maines said, and nobody bats an eyelash. It comes with the turf. He doesn't receive that much attention for it, because he has never sold 12 million copies of one CD, and doesn't get played in diners across America while people are eating their ham and cheese sandwiches.

Neil Young, last year, came out with an album against the war, and was critical of the President. He received a little flak for it from Fox News commentators and a few others, but no big deal. Neil Young is also the guy who in 1970, wrote: "Tin soldiers and Nixon comin', we're finally on our own..." about the tragedy at Kent State.

Now throw this into the mix: Neil Young made a couple of public statements in the early 1980's that he liked and supported President Reagan. Man, did that upset some folks on "the left!" "How could he do that!"

Toby Keith - I don't agree with his politics - but I like some of his songs. I like the one he does with Willie about "whiskey for my men, and beer for my horses."

My wife was telling me that she told a couple folks in her office that we were going to the Chicks concert the following evening. One of her co-workers, who is quite conservative, and I'm sure doesn't know jack about their music - or anyone else's music for that matter - said: "The Dixie Chicks! But they're not politically correct."

Like many Americans, Natalie Maines was not in favor of invading Iraq. Historically speaking, it's not much of a stretch that this all could have gone down a few years earlier, when Clinton was still in the White House. Had that been the case, and the Chicks were on a concert stage on the eve of the invasion, I also believe it's not a stretch that she could have said something like: "I'm sure glad I'm not from Arkansas, because I'd be embarassed that the President is from my state!"

Fox News commentators and certain radio talk show hosts would have held her up as being a hero!

Which brings me the following point: A radio personality, one of the people who stirred up the whole "destroy your Dixie Chicks CD's" campaign, freely admitted on camera, in the film "Shut Up And Sing" that it was great publicity for the station, and he actually felt a little bad for the Chicks - but it was good for business.

Lord knows, I wish she'd kept her mouth shut too, so I don't have to go into a spiel about how they are good musicians when someone is riding in my car and sees one of their CD boxes in my console.

I also thought it wasn't that big a deal, but media attention blew the thing way, way, out of proportion.

I wonder if any of those folks that have gone over to "the other side," and are part of the reason for the President's low approval ratings, have replaced any of those smashed up Chicks CD's?
Last edited by Mark Eaton on 7 Jun 2007 9:52 am, edited 1 time in total.
Mark
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Bill McCloskey
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Post by Bill McCloskey »

Those constitutional rights would be a whole lot less messy if people would just stop practicing them.
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Post by b0b »

I thought this topic was supposed to be about music. :(
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Mark Eaton
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Post by Mark Eaton »

And in a long-winded manner, that was sort of my point, b0b.

Some things have become so over-the-top in about the past decade, that the media can take an incident that should be a small blip on the radar and blow it up way out of proportion. It happens on all sides, it doesn't matter about one's views or beliefs.

In watching that documentary, it was clear that they were blown away about how much attention the incident received.

I commend my fellow Forumites that this thing has been kept civil, and b0b hasn't had to put the lock on it.

These women and their band put on an outstanding concert.

The fact that this thread has gone this many posts without blowing up is an encouraging sign - to me, anyway.
Mark
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Post by Mike Perlowin RIP »

b0b wrote:I thought this topic was supposed to be about music. :(
Bobby, the Dixie Chicks are such a lightning rod that it's not really possible to discuss them without the political controversy entering into the discussion.

I hope that you make an exception to your rule about topic drift and keep this thread open as long as everybody remains civil and treats each other with dignity and respect. I think a discussion of the controversy surrounding the chicks is worthwhile.

Maye we can learn a few things from each other.
Please visit my web site and Soundcloud page and listen to the music posted there.
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Post by Tom Olson »

Like many Americans, Natalie Maines was not in favor of invading Iraq.
That's undoubtedly true -- but there have not been many Americans who make an outward appearance of being "just a little ol' country gal" and who have traveled to a foreign country, gotten up in front of 80,000 or more people of that country, and then made an extremely disparaging personal attack on the President of the U.S.

By the way, I don't think there's any true American who believes she didn't have the right to say what she said. However, I think there are lots of true Americans who don't agree with what she said, and don't agree with the manner in which she said it.
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Post by Stephen Gambrell »

I thought Natalie went to Berklee? And I'm glad the Chicks ditched the cowgirl outfits, gimmicks only last for so long.
The band on the ACL show was outtasight! When you've got Lloyd Maines AND David Grissom, music WILL be made! Didn't care much for the tone of either dobro, but I don't like the way a reso sounds plugged in anyway. The only reason I had Ivan Guernsey install a pickup in mine was for tuning in loud places.
Gas prices have come down some, y'all noticed that?
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Post by Charlie McDonald »

I thought the electric National was pretty outstanding, a different sound and all, but I like the new edge, if there is one.

Really good commentary, Mark. Right on.
I guess I'll never know if I started liking them for their music or their politics. I do know that taking Sony to task over royalties and creative rights and winning made me like them pretty good; I thought they were scrappy, and I thought that matched them musically as well.

I guess Elvis has pretty much left the building, but let the band play on as far as I'm concerned.

After all, as the local authority said:
Charlie McDonald wrote:I suppose it is, in the end, hard to divorce music from politics.
Those that say don't know; those that know don't say.--Buddy Emmons
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Mark Eaton
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Post by Mark Eaton »

Thank you, Charlie.

Tom Olson - I guess Maines could have made the comment in front of an audience of 200 people, and as long as the media reported it, she could have received the same amount of heat - but for your information, Shepherds Bush Empire, the theater where the incident occurred, has a capacity of 2,000 - which is a little short of 80,000.
Mark
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Post by Clyde Mattocks »

Bob, I've stayed out of this one so far, but I agree that it is impossible to discuss some artists, whose either pro or anti establishment views are so
identified with their music, without getting into
these areas. As far as I know, the
Chicks don't have a particularly polically
controversial song, as do Bob Dylan, Neil Young, or
Merle Haggard (who has lyrics on both sides of the
fence). Charlie Daniels has certainly had his share
of flag waving anthems with the underlying message,
"If you don't like it, leave".

With most elections in this country decided by only
a few percentage points, I think it is just plain
dumb for an entertainer to risk 50% of their fan base by using their celebrity status to advance a
personal opinion(which I might even happen to agree with). Having said that, it is their right to take that risk.
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David L. Donald
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Post by David L. Donald »

Civilization. What a concept!
Civilized discourse, a direct decendant.

I think lil ole country gal's have as much right,
to disagree with their parents views as their
parents had to disagree with their own parents views.


Times change,
and some people don't after a certain point.
This is equally reflected in child vs parents musical choices.

The 'establishment' changes regularly,
one decade you're on one side,
the next you are suddenly in the opposition,
and only 2-4 percentage of the voters put YOU
in that position. ('Texas Swing Voters'... ;) )

There is also a periodic shift from one
absolutist, black and white point of view
to one MUCH more grey in character for many.
Yet some never change, though the landscape
changes around them.

I agree with the Shock and Aauuuww no, she didn't say THAT!??? factor
for many of their fans. Who were thinking;
these good lil country gal's is one'a us,
then in one fell swoop; my god they's the enemy.

No matter that their MUSIC still speaks to the heartland,
their opposition to certain subjects is now clear,
so they are shunned. By some.
No matter if their motives are pure.
Hey lil girl shut up and play your guitar.
Don't ask, don't tell,
we wanna think you agree
with all our notions.

Of course from adversity often grows great music.
Some of the best albums have been because times were tough.
Or the artist was going through a real bad patch.
Or they were standing up to people gettin in their face.

Ya know I am in a country where there is
a 'country music' scene, 'Songs for Life'.
It reflects the hardships of the little people
from the backwoods, coming to Bangkok and other citys,
and trying to make a living and help the folks back home.
Sound familiar?
And trust me most of these people would LOVE to
be in a West Virginia shotgun shack.
that being 2 steps up the ladder.

There have been 17 coup d'etat's here.
I been through one, and anyone local my age
has been through 5-6 at least.
Speach has been stifled depending on who's side
you were on, and that side changes regularly.
But the music makers still get out their songs,
and talk from the stage.

Before I was with them,
my 1st band was run off the stage with M-16's...
And we scream at the Chicks for disgreeing with
the powers that be. Well you can appreciate
the difference, of getting yelled at, albums burned,
no air-play, to getting guns at your back
till you cut the amps...

The last government was sueing EVERYBODY who dissented,
newspapers, singers, actors, professors, reporters,
ANYBODY who had a disenting view and actually spoke out.
It was Whitewater or Plame multiplied by 100.
No exageration.

The suits eventually were dropped.
And the singers continue to write
songs of their times, and say their piece.

Inspite of a junta in charge, for the moment,
the older singers STILL are active
with the bully pulpit THEY have earned,
to aid those less fortunate here.
Even if it goes against the powers that be, establishment of the day.

If we stifle dissenting voices,
then we get what we deserve,
NO SAY in what's going on.
Since you could be on the other side
in a few years yourself.

As Elvis Costello sang in that Nick Lowe song.
"What's So Funny About Peace Love and Understanding".

You may not like that the Chicks disagree with you
from any spot of terrain on the planet, but they
are just being themselves, and their music comes
from their experiences, in the same places you came
from in many cases, yet their views are different.

It's amazing what 15 years in age difference
can do to peoples outlook. On both sides of the middle age.

Their music still reflects great segments of the heartlands.
Where kids have gone much more rock and hiphop
than classic country and rockabilly.
Different times different views,
and yet still their musical core is down home,
even if the parents think their being to rebelious
or uppity.
DLD, Chili farmer. Plus bananas and papaya too.

Real happiness has no strings attached.
But pedal steels have many!
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P Gleespen
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Post by P Gleespen »

Well, it was fun while it lasted. It does seem to be impossible to talk Chicks without talking politics. Or is that polichicks?

They are fine players indeed.
Patrick