Advance By Ditching Emulation Practices

Rick Collins · Post by **Rick Collins** » 16 Jun 2003 8:26 am

...any failure of fecundity is certainly not due to a deficiency of fertilizer...

Is this a polite way of saying, "male bovine fecal matter is not in short supply"?

Bill Hankey · Post by **Bill Hankey** » 16 Jun 2003 12:37 pm

Pat B.,

I'm unable to reply to two replies sent 6 hours ago, because it still remains unposted by MSN.web tv. My earlier reply has been excluded from the posting; also. If anyone should make inquiries, please keep in mind that I try to answer promptly.

Bill H. [This message was edited by Bill Hankey on 17 June 2003 at 05:59 AM.]

Cory Dolinsky · Post by **Cory Dolinsky** » 16 Jun 2003 2:03 pm

Watching T.V. = waste of time
The internet except for the forum(sometimes)= waste of time

Learning from the masters= PRICELESS

Bill Hankey · Post by **Bill Hankey** » 16 Jun 2003 11:41 pm

Rick C.

I never said that walking on hot coals would be an easy task, or that working in a hot kitchen, was an easy task. Poking fun is fun until you, yourself, become the subject of humor, which has already taken place. For me personally, you have given me something to measure, regardless of musical abilities. I've been in and out of many doors, that have yielded more than enough knowledge about human nature. I feel confident that I will be able to survive after reading your latest comments.

Bill H. [This message was edited by Bill Hankey on 17 June 2003 at 05:57 AM.]

David L. Donald · Post by **David L. Donald** » 17 Jun 2003 12:18 am

Happy birthday to Bill Hankey our resident agent provocateur.

LOL

..or as President Bush is credited with saying, "The French don't have a word for entrepreneur"...

Of course he hasn't a clue that it IS a french word in the first place.
If only the French had a clue about supporting their entrepreneurs!

Some very interesting posts on the original topic.
Generally right on the mark depending on point of view.
If we could just sait down and play these monster machines, the PSG,
there would be no need to copy anyones licks as a road map.

Thankfully so many people, for free and for a reasonable profit, have made huge efforts to make available these needed resources for those newbies and old salts who have an interest in learning a new approach.

It is inconceivable that each individual can see all the possibilities on the instrument working in total isolation. Each time I try someone elses lick, I see a few more OTHER things that branch off it.
For that alone it is worth learning the lick.
[This message was edited by David L. Donald on 17 June 2003 at 01:27 AM.]

Bill Hankey · Post by **Bill Hankey** » 17 Jun 2003 4:46 am

David D.,

Thank you for the birthday wish, and by all means, for the civility.

Bill H.

Bill Hankey · Post by **Bill Hankey** » 17 Jun 2003 7:39 am

David D.,

Lest I be taunted throughout the day, I must elucidate on one captive word in your last message. That word is "isolate". No, no never, would I ever recommend creating a solitary anything. There is a great need to communicate both visually, and through our music. There is little doubt that the human desire to reach out, and touch someone, embraces every motivation, that is found in ones musical expression. If the entire human race suddenly lost their ability to hear, with the exception of one musician, who knows where the "isolated" would turn to face the dreadful debacle?
My point was made earlier, which focuses on wasted time. If we could buy time, rich men would soon be living in poverty. My statements were based on detouring around a perchance marathon engagement, while trying to work out a "special" series of notes, that could very well be quite simple. The catch is, it no longer sounds as it did when it was produced through the "board". You can easily reflect on the rationale, by observing the effects that are toted to the stage, by key entertainers. I'm a country boy, through and through, and one day I found myself in a strange place. It was a music store, where over 90% of the clientele played Rock 'N Roll. The head salesperson became insistent, wanting me to try the "rock" sound that he created in just a few minutes. I couldn't believe what I was hearing at that point. I was transformed into playing the music that did not fit my sentiments. This proves beyond that shadow of doubt, that any form of adjustments, or tampering could spell with certainty, a rocky road should you find yourself engaged in devoting an entire practice session to an elusive musical expression.

Bill H. [This message was edited by Bill Hankey on 17 June 2003 at 08:43 AM.][This message was edited by Bill Hankey on 17 June 2003 at 10:06 AM.]

Chris Scruggs · Post by **Chris Scruggs** » 27 Aug 2003 11:33 pm

Oh, heck! Let's stir this one back up!

So Bill. What do you really think about practicing and emulation?

Bill Hankey · Post by **Bill Hankey** » 28 Aug 2003 5:49 am

Chris S.

Thanks for turning on the burners once again, that could revive new approaches, to making appreciable advances on improved performances, while reducing efforts made in the process of playing steel guitar. I've found that trying to write like another person is a hopeless task, particularly if their writing skills appear to be a silly iota short of perfect. With that in mind, why wouldn't it make a great deal of sense, to do, what YOU do best with any endeavor? Of course it would, still it would be wrong to assume that pointers, and tid-bits of tangible literature, or firsthand instructions, deter the learning processes. I'm here to say, that there is a need to break free from the bonds, which maximize the unrestrained inducement to become another of the same. Of course, the questionable habit, contributes to a given player, moving further from originality. Avoiding the commonplace snag, may very well lead to better goals.

Bill Hankey

[This message was edited by Bill Hankey on 28 August 2003 at 09:52 AM.]

Donny Hinson · Post by **Donny Hinson** » 28 Aug 2003 8:33 am

When you get right down to it, we all do the same things...only different. Sometimes, doing something like someone else is a conscious act. And sometimes, it's probably an unconscious act. Lastly, it could be the result of coincidence or dumb luck, too.

But whatever you do, remember that it's usually unlikely you're the first to do anything. It's easy to notice something when we do it ourselves, and downright impossible to notice what we have no knowledge of, or have never been exposed to!

Al Marcus · Post by **Al Marcus** » 28 Aug 2003 9:38 am

I agree about learning by copying the Greats.
Here is a little bit of history==

In 1936, I was playing a supro 6 string electric in bars. Usually A 6 tuning, or C# Minor, or E7, or B11th.
When I heard Alvino Rey in 1937, playing all those modern chords on a D8(but he had special 9 strings), no pedals yet.
I had to have a D8 to get all those chords.

So I DID copy every song he played, and in doing so, gave me a good foundation on the steel guitar for the future. (I had already studied music, so had that background)

I had all his records, etc. For a while I did copy every song and chord he played.BUT I did not copy him note for note, after a while. 'Hindustan', On the Alamo', 'Idaho",'St.Louis Blues', 'Tiger Rag', and all the others too numerous to mention here. This was without pedals.I played the songs, but never quite the same way each time.

Later when he got his 6 pedal Electra-Harp, I got one too and learned his pedal setup, etc..

He was the Reece Anderson, Curly, and Buddy of those days. I am sure they copied a few things from him too.

So I highly recommend finding players you like and copy their tunes and learn how they all work together.

For instance, I play the BE "night life" intro for a turn around when I play " The Nearness of You" , then later in the tune I use a completly different set of chords for the same thing.

So pay attention to those Great players of today. They have already been there. No need to Re-Invent the wheel! Learn From them and then go on to your own style.

But don't forget to listen to Sax players, Piano players , etc. We did that to get an idea of the different styles of jazz, etc.....al

------------------
My Website..... www.cmedic.net/~almarcus/

Chris Scruggs · Post by **Chris Scruggs** » 28 Aug 2003 1:09 pm

So Bill, after all these months I STILL don't know exactly what you are getting at.

If you could give me DIRECT answers to these questions, it would make my day.

1. Do you consider any other steel guitarists to be influential to you? Who are they and how did they influence your playing?

2. Do you think it is right or wrong to play signiture steel licks to standard country songs the way they were made popular by the original musician. For instance, if you were playing a gig with Buck Owens, would you play "Together Again" with the same basic idea as it was played on the original recording?

3. Do you play in a band with other musicians in a mutually creative setting, or do you just play at home and at steel guitar related functions?

Now Bill, I believe that having your own style is great. I write my own instrumentals for the steel, and play my own original parts for original material or covers performed in a different style.

I don't know if you agree with me on this, but I believe if a singer pays you money to play a show with them, you should be considerate of their songs and how they like them to sound. Even if you don't "copy" the original solo note for note, you should give the artist(and the audience) what they are paying for.

Do you agree, Bill?

Still wondering, Chris Scruggs

Bill Hankey · Post by **Bill Hankey** » 28 Aug 2003 2:35 pm

Chris S.,

I hope that you enjoy the steel guitar, as much as I do. As our memory banks gradually start to fill with accomplishments, it becomes challenging to maintain the important chord changes of different melodies. Having the ability to recall what we have learned, is really a blessing.

Bill H.

[This message was edited by Bill Hankey on 29 August 2003 at 02:24 AM.][This message was edited by Bill Hankey on 02 September 2003 at 09:32 PM.]

Chris Scruggs · Post by **Chris Scruggs** » 28 Aug 2003 2:46 pm

Great, Bill. Looks like you are not quite as "out there" as we all seemed to think!

Well, playing steel guitar anyways...

Bill Hankey · Post by **Bill Hankey** » 29 Aug 2003 1:39 am

Chris S.,

Everyone is "out there" looking for the answers to unsolvable riddles.

Bill H.

Chris Scruggs · Post by **Chris Scruggs** » 30 Aug 2003 1:48 am

Bill H.,

Isn't music the biggest riddle of them all?

Chris S.

Bill Hankey · Post by **Bill Hankey** » 30 Aug 2003 4:48 am

Chris S.,

I agree of course, that music is nearly as complex as life itself. Thanks for the brevity, and subject matter, that is so fascinating, it would require endless fireside chats, to scratch the surface, in a logical manner.

Please excuse the deletions. I'd rather not habitually become a name-dropper.

Chris, could I ask if you are a blood relative of the famous Scruggs family?

Bill H.

Bill Hankey · Post by **Bill Hankey** » 30 Aug 2003 8:53 am

Al Marcus,

It's apparent that you kept in stride with the great Alvino Rey. Is it possible that you could offer additional information about Alvino's connection with having been the first to build a pedal steel in 1939. According to W. Winston's publication, I believe it is written that A.R. is credited with doing this. Although he didn't do the work, he hired at least two skilled, and oriented workers to assist in the project. That information was lacking, in an explanation, of what influences were realized, before Bud Isaac's
A and B pedal shift from a 1 to a 4 chord was introduced in the early 50's. I would appreciate reading
a few paragraphs about what actually took place, from someone who may have witnessed the activities in 1939. Thanks...

Bill H.

Chris Scruggs · Post by **Chris Scruggs** » 2 Sep 2003 3:38 pm

Yes, I am Gary's son. Earl is my grandfather.
I'm sorry you found my questiond "silly", but I was just trying to get a mental picture of where you are coming from. I've heard some "original" musicians who blew me away, I've also heard "original" musicians who where IMHO "show offs".

Though I have never heard you play, your answers lead me to believe you have a good idea of how the steel SHOULD sound but also a creative outlook on how it COULD sound.

It is hard to understand somebodys playing style and attitude when you have never met them or heard them. And though some people have used words like "pretentious" and "wordy" to discribe a person they have never met, I always find it better to ask the questions that YOU need to know for better understanding. While we may not agree 100%, communication is the only way you can know where that % is, and THAT is how we understand and respect each other better.

So I hope my questions didn't seem to intruding.

I am just a man seeking truth, and trying to remember that whatever our personal outlook is, we all chose this instrument because we wanted to make people happy. Whether it be ourselves, the kids at the family picnic, the elderly couple two-stepping to the song they fell in love to, the housewife listining to the car radio on her way to the store, even the drunk guy getting thrown out of the honkytonk for trying to climb on the stage and play harmonica.... WHOEVER, we do this because we love music, and we love playing it for people.

So let us all remember, that even if we don't sit in the same pew, we are all here in the same church.

To Bill Hankey, and all the other musicians who enjoy the sound of steel on the strings,

Chris Scruggs

Bill Hankey · Post by **Bill Hankey** » 2 Sep 2003 4:09 pm

Chris S.,

A thousand apologies if ever I deter you from maintaining a steady course in your chosen field of music. Please regard me as a friend. I want nothing more than to be a good neighbor, and to hold out my hand in friendship. I hope to meet you someday, if possible. It really was not in good taste, when I used poor teminology. I appreciate your replies, and I hope our communication lines will remain intact.

Bill H.

Chris Scruggs · Post by **Chris Scruggs** » 2 Sep 2003 9:18 pm

No problem, Bill. I suppose my "interigation" was in fact a little aggressive. I just wanted to understand more where you where coming from. Your answers to my questions let me know what I was wondering. After reading your quite opinionated(no offense intended)posts, I was simply intrigued.

Chris