The E9th Myth

Mitch Ellis · Post by **Mitch Ellis** » 18 Jul 2006 2:46 pm

Jim
"I have great respect for guy's like Mitch....because thats WHO they are."

Thank you for those words. And the part...."thats WHO they are"...you nailed it.

David,
Thank you for your kind words also. you said that people who wanted to spread the instrument into other genres just need to keep working hard at it. I fully agree.

Mike,
I was not offended by your post. You said that you didn't understand people listening to only one kind of music and nothing else. Think of it like this. Have you ever eaten food that you didn't like the taste of, but ate it anyway to keep from hurting someone's feeling's? If music was "food", then country would be my favorite "thing on the menu." I wish you the best of luck with your personal goals. A concert steel guitarist would be quite an accomplishment. Bob said that this was off-topic so I better close. I'm country to the bone, gentlmen, and I can't help it. It's just the way I'm wired.

Mitch

Jim Phelps · Post by **Jim Phelps** » 18 Jul 2006 2:55 pm

You're all wrong. It's not the steel that's making the whiny sounds.... it's the players!

Really though, interesting discussion.

Jim Sliff · Post by **Jim Sliff** » 18 Jul 2006 3:58 pm

Mitch - thanks. It's funny that we are really on opposite ends of the stylistic world, but I can usually read someone "going through the motions" quickly - and there's a huge difference between a really skilled faker and a moderately skilled "honest" player. I'll listen to the second one even if I don't care for the music, because his heart is in it.

That's where I lose grips with the idea of "paying dues" playing in a country band to learn the thing. I wouldn't be playing from the heart - which is a simple lesson a man I respect highly reminded me to always adhere to.

Mike Perlowin RIP · Post by **Mike Perlowin RIP** » 18 Jul 2006 4:49 pm

Jim. That's where you and I differ. I can get off playing any kind of music as long as it's done well.

I think most of us here, regardless of what our favorite styles may be, put our hearts and souls into our playing regardless of whether it be old country, new country, rock, blues, or whatever. For me, the deciding factor as to whether or not I get into it is the level of musicianship of the other players.

Given the scarcity of gigs in So california these days, it's moot point, but if you're ever offered a position in a country band, you'd be wise to take it. You'd learn a lot, and probably have a lot more fun than you realize.

Mitch, you and I have different musical tastes, but you seem like a nice enough guy, and I of course am a prince among men.

Let's grab a cup of coffee together if/when we attend a steel show at the same time.

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Duncan Hodge · Post by **Duncan Hodge** » 18 Jul 2006 5:59 pm

This post made me revisit an old recording from my youth, "Highway Call" by Dickey Betts. John Hughey played what I believe was E9th on the album. Mr. Hughey played some of the most incredible steel that I remembered, and on a listening tonight, it sounded even better that I remembered what I thought it sounded like. It wasn't country that he was playing, but it fit the songs like a glove... made me want to run out and get a Les Paul and forget the Tele, too.
Duncan

Jim Sliff · Post by **Jim Sliff** » 18 Jul 2006 6:31 pm

Mike - It's a difference in perception of what we feel inside about playing, but neither is wrong. But if I ever playedin a "real" country and I'd probably get fired for sounding like "me", which is what I seem to sound like on every instrument. I've never been real good at copping licks exactly (or even wanted to)...which is why I've rarely played in cover bands that like to stick to the record as close as possible.

Duncan - now see, here's where there's a difference in perceptions. going back o the original intent of this thread, I would say you consider "Highway Call" to be a great example of the E9 tuning used to play non-country music.

I've had that album for years - bought it thinking it would be an Allman-style thing, and to my confusion it was a country album.

So it really does depend on where you start from. I thought...and still do think...John Hughey was playing 100% country. Much more "country-sounding" than the stuff I was hearing Sneaky Pete play with the Burritos, which sounded more like rock with a little country mixed in.

Note - I'm not saying it was bad by any means. But it wasn't what I expected.

Mitch Ellis · Post by **Mitch Ellis** » 18 Jul 2006 6:35 pm

Jim,
Even though we are on opposite ends of the stylistic world, we can still support each other. Even more important, we can still be friends. I have many friends that are solid and true that I met through music.They will be life-long friends. Their friendship is the most valuable thing that music has given me.

Mike,
Funny you should mention the coffee. When it comes to drinking coffee, I am a local legend.

I hold the record for the most cups within 24 hours.

If we ever meet, I'll buy the coffee, my friend.

Mitch
p.s. A prince of a fellow, I'm sure

Duncan Hodge · Post by **Duncan Hodge** » 18 Jul 2006 7:33 pm

Hello Jim,
I also thought that "Highway Call" was way too country when I first bought it. I was looking for an "Allman type" album. After a listening tonight, the steel playing didn't sound country at all. Then again, what is labled as "country music" these days doesn't sound much like country to my ears. It sounds more like a bunch of guys in big hats and women in tight jeans singing in fake southern accents.
I'm sort of leaning toward DVA's advice, and I'm paraphrasing, to just play the darn thing and see what comes out. Anyway, "Highway Call" deserves a second listening if anone wants to hear some really hot steel playing.
Duncan

David L. Donald · Post by **David L. Donald** » 18 Jul 2006 8:58 pm

Funny, last night I used E9 on several different genres.

No one called it country,
except on the country tunes,
or tunes I wanted to be more country.

I did get better responce on my C6 stuff,
maybe because I play a bit more agressively on C6,
but no lack off good responce on the E9.

There are things it really has a great feel for.
Granted I have a non-standard E9 setup.
I don't regret getting a D-10 instead of just a C6 s-10.

Adrienne Clasky · Post by **Adrienne Clasky** » 19 Jul 2006 8:58 am

"what is labled as "country music" these days doesn't sound much like country to my ears. It sounds more like a bunch of guys in big hats and women in tight jeans singing in fake southern accents."

Great comment!!!!!!

Gene Jones · Post by **Gene Jones** » 20 Jul 2006 7:34 am

Ever since I first heard Lyle Ritz play good improvisational jazz on a ukelele many years ago, I have never again relegated the parameters of any instrument to a single style.

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Wiz Feinberg · Post by **Wiz Feinberg** » 21 Jul 2006 9:06 am

<SMALL>The topic here is not whether pedal steel is suitable for different styles of music. It's whether E9th can be used when the country sound is inappropriate. Is "whiney" an inherent characteristic of the E9th (and not the C6th), or is it a matter of how the player approaches his music?</SMALL>

The way I see and play it, the sounds that come out of any steel guitar's E9th neck are directly controlled by the player's touch and technique, the age/condition of the strings, the quality of the pickups, the effects used and the note progressions or chord voicing being employed.

I play all kinds of music at my current and past gigs and sessions. I have used my E9th neck to accurately render hard and soft Rock & Roll (incl. Hendrix and SRV styles), Funk, Disco, Jazz, Swing, Reggae, Hawaaian, The Blues, Bluegrass, Old Country and New Country music. I use whatever effects and playing styles are needed to emulate the sounds I want to emit. Some of these effects include the following:

Tremolo
Chorus
Flanger
Delay
Digital Reverb
BoBro Dobro Simulator
Fuzztone
Compressor

When I want to sound whiney on a mornful country ballad that is how I play it. It is the right sound for that song. When I play my lead parts on Redneck Woman don't stand too close to my amplifier without earplugs! It sounds like New Country/Rock & Roll, with lots of compressed fuzz, popping notes, and quick slapback delay. When I use my Bobro I usually play like a Dobro player, not like a steel player. It definitely doesn't sound like a typical E9th neck under those circumstances.

I have found the E9th tuning to be most useful for all of the various types of music I have and continue to play professionally, over the past 32 years. Except for having and using a C6th neck, where it sounds better, I have not found any reason to create a new tuning to play other forms of music. I adjust how and what strings I play, or effects I activate, to suit the song/tune.

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