What is it about new Country?

Ben Jones · Post by **Ben Jones** » 4 Aug 2008 4:50 pm

my use of the word 'poet' was intended as biting sarcasm.

I dont need fine literature or poetry to enjoy a song, but FOR ME the new stuff has lyrics that are just not tolerable on any level.

"oobla dee oobla da" or "gabba gabba hey" dont bother me as goofy as they both are. I dunno...this new country just has the special ingredients needed to make me cringe somehow. its made out of awful sauce

it burns! it burns!!!!!

Brint Hannay · Post by **Brint Hannay** » 4 Aug 2008 5:18 pm

I dunno, I think "Why Don't We Do It In the Road?" a) obviously has a very broad wink in it ("Hey, we're the Beatles, we can get away with anything...here's proof"), and b) is still much more sincere than the tripe that is delivered, winkless, on commercial country radio every day. Comparatively, it IS poetry! (Okay, I exaggerate, but...) Rhyme and meter do not poetry make!

BTW, I heard "I'd like to check you for ticks" for the first time yesterday--I think that's pretty funny!

Twayn Williams · Post by **Twayn Williams** » 4 Aug 2008 5:49 pm

Steve Allen (I think) used to do a funny bit where he'd recite lyrics to certain pop songs as though they were serious poetry. I remember his rendition of the Donna Summer classic "Hot Stuff" with particular fondness.

Steve Norman · Post by **Steve Norman** » 4 Aug 2008 8:14 pm

maybe its the constant regurgitation of the same old stuff over and over again. beer and pizza is pretty nice going down,, but it somehow tastes different coming back up.

Joe Drivdahl · Post by **Joe Drivdahl** » 4 Aug 2008 8:17 pm

I don't really see the need for lyrics at all; therefore, do we even need singers at all? Short answer? No. Not in my opinion. Mozart didn't have singers, so why should we? Music is made by instruments, not singers and lyrics.

Look at the benefits of having no singer.

1. No bad lyrics
2. No putting up with egotistical singers who can't even play an instrument
3. No waiting for singer to shut up so you can play
4. No musically illiterate idiots in the audience singing along off key.

Now get rid of the drummer and you got a band.

Joe

Michael Strauss · Post by **Michael Strauss** » 4 Aug 2008 10:03 pm

Dan Tyack · Post by **Dan Tyack** » 5 Aug 2008 6:16 am

Regarding Carrie Underwood's singing not being up to 'Grand Old Opry standards'.......

I guess you guys never heard Bill Anderson or Skeeter Davis.....

There's plenty of great playing on NCS records. In my opinion the records are a lot better than 80s top 40 country (a lot more steel guitar). However, my attitude towards NCS is similar to how I feel about Opera: It's fine except for the singing.

Dan Tyack · Post by **Dan Tyack** » 5 Aug 2008 6:24 am

Joe Drivdahl wrote:I don't really see the need for lyrics at all; therefore, do we even need singers at all? Short answer? No. Not in my opinion. Mozart didn't have singers, so why should we? Music is made by instruments, not singers and lyrics.

Joe

Actually, Mozart did have singers. He wrote some beautiful operas (The Magic Flute, Don Giovanni, etc) that have been ruined by singers for hundreds of years...

Joe, I think we do need a singer to do the kickoffs and turnarounds.

Joe Drivdahl · Post by **Joe Drivdahl** » 5 Aug 2008 7:43 am

Dan,

You've discovered the perfect use for singers. Thats funny.

How could I forget about opera! Yes they do have singers in opera, but that just goes to prove another point: That lyrics don't matter. Who can understand what opera singers are screeching about anyway? Might as well be "blah, blah, blah, Odey Bodey..." as far as I can tell. Opera singers should learn to speak the language if they are going to sing in the US.

I guess I have to concede that the singer is a necessary evil if only for relief between lead breaks.

Joe

Dan Tyack · Post by **Dan Tyack** » 5 Aug 2008 7:58 am

I should properly attribute that remark. When I was in Nashville, it was alleged that Buddy Emmons was putting together a band 'with 4 steel players and a guy who sings like Ray Price to do the turnarounds'.

Barry Blackwood · Post by **Barry Blackwood** » 5 Aug 2008 11:18 am

Carrie Underwood? She's no screamer and can sing, have you ever heard her version of "Stand By Your Man"? It's pretty impressives. But I don't understand about her getting inducted into the Opry ...

JH, exactly what don't you understand about it?

Joe Drivdahl · Post by **Joe Drivdahl** » 5 Aug 2008 11:39 am

Now I think Buddy's got a great idea there, but couldn't you just hire a bassman to do the turn arounds?

Olympia WA, huh? Thats a nice area. I was out there years ago with a friend of mine. We toured the Olympia brewery when it was still there. That was fun.

Do you ever play around the Aberdeen / Hoquiam area? I think my friend still lives out there. His name is Don Fitzgerald, singer, bassman, rhythm guitar.

Joe

Post by **Dave Mudgett** » 5 Aug 2008 1:32 pm

Opera singers should learn to speak the language if they are going to sing in the US.

Why should opera singers perform Le nozze di Figaro, Don Giovanni, or Die Zauberflöte in English? They were written in Italian or German, and the lyrics and music work best together that way, IMHO. I don't think this makes any more sense than dubbing, let's say, Italian or Chinese translations onto a Merle Haggard song. Great music - including opera or Haggard - transcends written language if you just listen to it empathetically. IMHO, of course.

I really think the subject of singers is far afield from "What's wrong with country music?". Just like in any style, there are now good and bad singers - there always have been, and there probably always will be. For the most part, the vast majority of country singers are not "great singers" - not at all. Some of them - even some of the well known ones - have (or had) a lot of trouble carrying a melody. That doesn't bother me - they're purely stylists and it works in the style. But the great opera singers you blithely write off as "screeching" are truly great singers. You don't have to like it, but to write them off as screechers is profoundly inaccurate.

In my opinion, great instrumentalists are the ones who succeed in making their instrument "sing" in a way that recalls the human voice, in its many manifestations. I would infinitely rather hear tasteful steel guitar backup of a good singer - country or otherwise - to the 1,439,732[sup]nd[/sup] rendition of Steel Guitar Rag.

Ben Jones · Post by **Ben Jones** » 5 Aug 2008 1:51 pm

My problem isnt with the singers. Its with the songs and specifically with the lyrics.

As for not needing any singers...pffft.
Singers provide lyrical content instruments cannot provide in most cases. This lyrical content is FOR ME vital to a succesful song. It allows me to relate directly to the song, rather than extrapolating and interpreting meaning from an instrumental, and therefor provides ME with a much more moving expereince than some dudes noodling away on their instruments for 5 minutes straight.

whatever floats your boat tho.
personally most instrumental music FOR ME is nothing more than background music. It doesnt engage me.
There are of course exceptions but for the most part...YAWN.

Brint Hannay · Post by **Brint Hannay** » 5 Aug 2008 2:00 pm

Dave Mudgett wrote:I really think the subject of singers is far afield from "What's wrong with country music?".

I think it actually has a lot to do with it. It seems to me that the songs currently being written for country singers to perform are written the way they are because they're geared toward the modern Universal Pop Music Vocal Style that all the young "country" singers have adopted so thoroughly that they all sound the same--sing-song repetition of pentatonic interval jumps; lots of melisma; full-throttle belting of long-held notes near the top of the singer's range, reinforced by multiple backup vocals, also belting flat-out. Vocal athletics passing for feeling.

Theresa Galbraith · Post by **Theresa Galbraith** » 5 Aug 2008 2:14 pm

I do appreciate those comments.
I'm not a songwriter, but I'm sure they would like to hear what players have to say about it.

Post by **Dave Mudgett** » 5 Aug 2008 2:34 pm

Universal Pop Music Vocal Style

Yup - I alluded to that but didn't exactly state it directly. It's not about country music, but mainstream popular music in general.

But the other thing is that some contemporary vocalists are good singers, and others aren't. I don't like the overdone vocal athletics either, but that ain't new. Some of them are and were good singers, some weren't. I personally cannot listen to Barbara Streisland for a whole minute, but would not for a second try to argue she's not a fine singer.

The deal is - different strokes for different folks. Why do any of you care what other people listen to? Why is it not OK to just like what you like and listen to what you want to? Really, I'm being completely serious.

Brint Hannay · Post by **Brint Hannay** » 5 Aug 2008 2:45 pm

Dave, I agree with your last comments. But there's no harm in exchanging opinions, as long as everyone understands the "live and let live" premise.

As to Streisand, my opinion, personally, is that she is a skilled singer, but emphatically not a fine one. "Fine" implies true artistry. I can't stand to listen to her either!

A lot of today's singers are skilled also.

Ben Jones · Post by **Ben Jones** » 5 Aug 2008 2:48 pm

Dave Mudgett wrote:
Universal Pop Music Vocal Style
The deal is - different strokes for different folks. Why do any of you care what other people listen to? Why is it not OK to just like what you like and listen to what you want to? Really, I'm being completely serious.

I dont really care what others listen to, but there was a thread asking a specific question about a specific kind of music...and so here I am discussing it.

Perhaps tho, and I dont wanna speak for anyone else, but perhaps people "care" about it because they are unwillingly subjected to it, or perhaps they are affected, or even just beleive they are affected, negatively by its existence? Maybe some people feel they are denied jobs or gigs or whatever because this music is moore prevalent than their own. Maybe some feel the world would just be a better place without it. Like pornography...they might not have to look at pornography, and perhaps they shouldnt care about what others look at, yet somehow the existence of it is still offnsive and objectionable to them.

I dont necessarily feel any of those reasons would apply to me, just speculating as to why it might bother people what music others listen to. i dunno?

Rap sure gets people riled up ...I'm guessing its because people find it offensive either because they perceive it as being totally void of talent and skill , or because of the language and violent/sexist lyrical content.

similarly, I am greatly offended by the lyrical content of new country

Damir Besic · Post by **Damir Besic** » 5 Aug 2008 2:52 pm

Joe Drivdahl wrote:Dan,

How could I forget about opera! Yes they do have singers in opera, but that just goes to prove another point: That lyrics don't matter. Who can understand what opera singers are screeching about anyway? Might as well be "blah, blah, blah, Odey Bodey..." as far as I can tell. Opera singers should learn to speak the language if they are going to sing in the US.
Joe

this is either a joke or the most ignorant statement I have heard in a long time....

Db

Joe Drivdahl · Post by **Joe Drivdahl** » 5 Aug 2008 3:01 pm

Damir,
You can take it however you want to. It was meant as a joke, sort of playing off the "Everyone-who-lives-in-this-country-should-speak-English" proposal which seems to be popular at the moment.

I was just taking it to the ridiculously extreme, or extremely ridiculous, whichever you perfer.

Joe

Damir Besic · Post by **Damir Besic** » 5 Aug 2008 3:40 pm

ok, sorry, wasn`t sure, I figured it was a joke but than again....I have met some characters in my life ,you wouldn`t believe what would came out of their mouth....it is a good joke, little on the sarcastic side...

..but I like them like that..

Db

Theresa Galbraith · Post by **Theresa Galbraith** » 5 Aug 2008 4:03 pm

I've met alot of young songwriter's and they are good.
They all write about what they live.

Joe Drivdahl · Post by **Joe Drivdahl** » 5 Aug 2008 4:16 pm

Damir,
I tend toward a dry and sarcastic sense of humor. Many of my greatest attempts at humor have been misconstrued because of it.

Its all good.

Theresa,
I believe you. I would guess that good songs are being written today, but why are we not hearing any of them? Why are the artists disregarding so many of them?

Joe

Theresa Galbraith · Post by **Theresa Galbraith** » 5 Aug 2008 4:24 pm

Joe,
Perhaps, you aren't listening?