2nd string change

John Cox · From: Texas, USA

Does anyone have an idea on how to tune the 2nd string if you don't want the standard Eb on the E9 tuning?
Thanks,

J.C.
CarterSD103&5

Jim Smith · From: Midlothian, TX, USA

Some people tune it to D and raise and lower 1/2 tone to D# and C# respectively on different levers. Others tune it to C# and raise it 1/2 and 1 tone to D and D# respectively on different levers. I think Jimmie Crawford for one, also lowers it to C. Is this what you're asking?

Dave Birkett · From: Oxnard, CA, USA

After watching Hal Rugg on his video with BE, it looks like he tunes his to C# and uses a KL to raise it. Am I wrong?

Randy Pettit · From: North Texas USA

John:
I play a 12-string Universal and tune my "2nd string" (actually, it's my 1st string) to C# and raise it to D with RKL. I stole this idea from Mike Perlowin. It allows for some unison licks with the A-pedal, gives me the "D on top" equivalent while playing in the 6th mode, and doesn't sound out of key if I accidentally hit it by mistake.

Al Marcus · From: Cedar Springs,MI USA (deceased)

Dave-I believe that Hal Rugg has done that for many years. Tunes the 2nd string to C# open then pulls it to D the7th and then D# the maj7th.

There is a lot of good reasons why this is a good musical move. Also was easier on the knee lever to raise rather than lower in the old days. Hal is a great musician....al

my web page.
www.cmedic.net/~almarcus/

[This message was edited by Al Marcus on 25 June 2003 at 09:48 PM.]

Larry Bell · From: Englewood, Florida

Weldon Myrick does the same thing (along with others). I tune my second string to D -- got that idea from Jimmie Crawford decades ago and have been doing it ever since. I don't like those little unhappy accidents the D# can give you and feel more comfortable with the b7 than the Ma7. I raise it to D# and E and lower it to C# on various knee levers.

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Larry Bell - email: larry@larrybell.org - gigs - Home Page
2003 Fessenden S/D-12 8x8, 1969 Emmons S-12 6x6, 1971 Dobro, Standel and Peavey Amps

Bobby Lee · From: Cloverdale, California, USA

For many years I tuned the 2nd string to D, using the logic that it was "bluesier". Then one day I sat down and analyzed all of the scale positions that use the second string. Consider the common C scale positions (open, A+B and A+F):

fret   2nd str   note


       tuning    produced


 1     D#         E


 3     D          F


 4     D#         G


 6     D#         A


 8     D#         B


10     D          C


11     D#         D

In normal diatonic playing you only use the D note in 2 of the 7 scale positions. Of course, you also use it when you step out of the scale to get a C7th or F7th chord, but to me the bottom line is irrefutable. D#, strange as it sounds, is the most logical tuning for the string.

You can see the scale exercises I worked out in this topic.

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Bobby Lee - email: quasar@b0b.com - gigs - CDs, Open Hearts
Sierra Session 12 (E9), Williams 400X (Emaj9, D6), Sierra Olympic 12 (C6add9),
Sierra Laptop 8 (D13), Fender Stringmaster (E13, A6),
Roland Handsonic, Line 6 Variax

Jerry Hayes · From: Virginia Beach, Va.

I've tuned my 2nd string to C# for a lot of years and mostly because of playing a Universal and wanting that C6th type thing with the D on top. I agree with b0b about the scale thing but I don't use the 2nd string that much for scale work as I prefer to do it the old fashioned way with bar movement. Each way has it's good and bad and it's all in what you want to do. I played at a steel jam where one of the guys told me that I moved the bar around a lot more than most people do. I guess I do as I try to use as much bar movement as I can because of the sound.

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Livin' in the Past and the Future with a 12 string Mooney Universal tuning.

Bengt Erlandsen · From: Brekstad, NORWAY

With the 2nd string tuned to Eb you have all the necessary tools to explore harmonized scales. On strings 4&3 is your Major interval and on strings 2&1 is your minor interval. No pedals or levers required.
Gmajor scale would look like this



Only strings 1 - 4 shown


 


1-------6--8--------13--15------


2-------6--8--------13--15------


3----3--------8--10--------15---


4----3--------8--10--------15---

W 2nd tuned Eb the V Chord on string 5 2 1 will be a Major Chord.

You will also have a minor7th chord on strings 6 5 2 1

Even though I tune it to Eb I have just as many applications for the 2nd lowered to D or C#. Beeing able to play the scale as shown in the example is good enough reason for me to not wanting tune it to somethin else. Have knee-lever that takes care of that.

B.Erlandsen

For certain applications I might tune the 2nd to D so my knee-lever drops it to C instead of C#.

[This message was edited by Bengt Erlandsen on 26 June 2003 at 03:53 PM.]

Bobby Lee · From: Cloverdale, California, USA

Bengt, I follow that right up to the 11th fret, where I see the notes D and F. They don't seem to follow the 10th fret notes D and F#.

It's cool, though. I never thought of those positions before. Thanks!

John Macy · From: Rockport TX/Denver CO

I have had the second string at D since 1979, and would not have it any other way (thanks to Jimmie Crawford). It raises to D# and E and lowers to C# on various levers. Raising it to D# is a simple, intuitive motion, so getting to any of the suggestions above is second nature to me. YMMV.

Jon Light · From: Saugerties, NY

I too do the open D thing, raising to D# on one lever, lowering to C# on another. And I agree with John--it becomes intuitive to hit the lever for your D#. Seems pretty much 6 of one, half-dozen of the other. I occasionally consider standardizing back to the open D# but can't really see the point of changing something that works ok for me. I also can't really see any selling point, one way or another. An advantage here, a disadvantage there--seems kinda like a wash.

Bengt Erlandsen · From: Brekstad, NORWAY

Bobby. Typo error from my side.
The last three intervals end in a F chord.( or a G9) was actually a example of changing to another scale for the last three intervals.
I edited the post so now the scale should look correct as a Gmajor scale harmonized.

Yes there is advantages and disadvantages. Know the possibilities/differences between tuning to Eb or D or C# and know what you want to play then the setup will be according to that. My way is not the right way. It is only right for me.

Bengt Erlandsen

[This message was edited by Bengt Erlandsen on 26 June 2003 at 04:09 PM.]

Jerry Erickson · From: Atlanta,IL 61723

I'm with the D string crowd, big thanks to John for introducing me to Jimmie!

Robert Parent · From: Gillette, WY

I have tuned mine to a C# for about the past 20 years. I alway liked the unison things one can do with the 5th string without having to hold a knee lever. A knee lever also raises the C# to a D and Eb with a half stop.

Larry Bell · From: Englewood, Florida

The bottom line is that, like many things associated with pedal steel, your decisions are individual and may vary with your playing style. Even though you tune to one note, be it C#, D, or D#, a simple knee lever change makes all available. If you set your guitar up correctly, you can get all three without sacrificing the combinations you need.

If you are intent on copying someone's style and licks, I would suggest going with whatever they do. I have found some licks that Buddy Emmons does that are difficult or impossible with my particular setup. But, if your style is your own, you have more leeway.

Ain't this a great instrument?

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Larry Bell - email: larry@larrybell.org - gigs - Home Page
2003 Fessenden S/D-12 8x8, 1969 Emmons S-12 6x6, 1971 Dobro, Standel and Peavey Amps

Jon Light · From: Saugerties, NY

No. Occarina is a great instrument. This is a mess!

Well, it's pretty ok, I guess.

Al Marcus · From: Cedar Springs,MI USA (deceased)

Jerry Hayes brought up a good point that some steelers are forgetting. The Bar was meant to be MOVED. That is what it is supposed to do, slide in and out. No other instrument can do this as well as the steel guitar, that I can think of, offhand.

But I do like the C# in 2nd string and 9th string. Whenever I want the D, I just push a knee lever.

This is like Bobbe Seymoure's Z lever works, plus moving the 7th string F# a whole tone to G#, in effect changing the tuning from E9 to Emaj6..........al

.

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[url] www.cmedic.net/~almarcus/ [/url]

John Cox · From: Texas, USA

I was thinking along this line until I relized I tune my 9th string to C# and that might be too many C#s, what i'm trying to do is get the tuning to where I have no oposeing sounds or chromaticswhen I hit the strings all the way across. Thanks for all the good Ideas though.

J.C

Bobby Lee · From: Cloverdale, California, USA

I feel that this topic is giving the wrong impression. The true fact is: the vast majority of E9th players tune their 2nd string to D#.

I tuned it to D for 20 years. When I changed my 2nd string tuning from D to D#, suddenly a whole new world of scales and harmonies opened for me. There's a big difference between having a note available all the time, and having it available on a knee lever "when you need it".

I firmly believe that D# is the best note for the second string. On a standard 6-string guitar, you can retune a string for a song that needs a certain flavor (changing the E to D, for example), but the "standard" tuning is well accepted. It evolved to what it is for a reason.

I think that the same is true of the pedal steel. If you do an in-depth analysis of the musical possibilities, you'll come to the conclusion that the D# has many more uses than the D or C#. That's why the standard tuning is D#.

To those who say they want to avoid accidental wrong notes from the D# string, this is my response:

Play the guitar. Don't let the guitar play you. You must be in control of your hands to play the steel guitar well. If you're hitting strings unintentionally, go back to Joe Wright's Technique Bundle and spend some hard hours working on your right hand.

Please excuse my rant. I get wound up on this issue.

Often I hear the complaint that people post opinion as fact on the Forum, giving beginners bad direction. I just had to point out that the overwhelming majority of players use a D#, and have no problem with it. It's not just a matter of personal preference - it's a standard.

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Bobby Lee - email: quasar@b0b.com - gigs - CDs, Open Hearts
Sierra Session 12 (E9), Williams 400X (Emaj9, D6), Sierra Olympic 12 (C6add9),
Sierra Laptop 8 (D13), Fender Stringmaster (E13, A6),
Roland Handsonic, Line 6 Variax

[This message was edited by Bobby Lee on 27 June 2003 at 10:09 AM.]

Jerry Hayes · From: Virginia Beach, Va.

Hey b0b, I agree that it is the standard but that also may be the reason why so many steel players sound alike. A lot of us play the same licks, scales, tunings, knee lever placement, and all that stuff which contributes to sameness. Ever so often someone comes up with something different like the PF pedal, etc. I've always tried to make my meager attempts at steelin' to be my own thing and feeble as it may be, I think I've suceeded and I'm happy in the fact that I play what I like. The first steel I had with the "Chromatic" strings was an old Blanton and I liked the D# OK but liked the C# better so I think it is personal preference however, if I was to advise a new player, I'd tell him (her) to use the D# as like you stated, it is the standard.

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Livin' in the Past and the Future with a 12 string Mooney Universal tuning.

Bobby Lee · From: Cloverdale, California, USA

Buddy Emmons, Paul Franklin and Lloyd Green all use the D# string, and they don't sound alike.

John Macy · From: Rockport TX/Denver CO

I certainly don't tune the second to a D to avoid hitting accidental notes.

That whole world of scales etc. is still right there in front of me--when I think in those terms, it's a total intuitive thing to move the RKR to have it at D#.

I'm not really passionate enough about it to say it's the only way. It works great for me, and I feel there is absolutely no negative to having it that way. Just like I'm sure guys like Hal and Weldon feel no limitations by having their 2nd strings tuned to C#.

Bottom line is D# works best for Bobby and D works best for me. That's what's so great abut this instrument.

Randy Pettit · From: North Texas USA

I'm going to tune all 12 strings to "E", so I don't hit any accidental notes!

[This message was edited by Randy Pettit on 27 June 2003 at 01:55 PM.]

Earnest Bovine · From: Los Angeles CA USA

John Macy
Could you show us the rest of your pedal setup?

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