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Topic: Hawaiian music for civilians - Just a dream? |
Gerald Ross
From:
Ann Arbor, Michigan, USA
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Posted 24 Feb 2005 7:33 am |
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What type or response do you get when you play Andy Iona, Dick McIntire, Sol Hoopii, Jules Ah See etc. recordings for non Hawaiian music fans?
Do you get a different response when you play these recordings for fellow musicians?
I get my best response from fellow musicians, but the best is not so best. They can appreciate the techniques and skills but typically the music does nothing for their soul.
Non-musicians just look at me like I'm crazy. They consider many of the pre-WW2 recordings "Cartoon Music".
What about Hawaiian falsetto singing? That's a tough one. Honestly, when I first started listening to Hawaiian music I couldn't handle the falsetto stuff. It took about a year or so of listening until it grew on me. Now I love it.
Just bored today... looking to start a discussion.
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Gerald Ross
'Northwest Ann Arbor, Michigan's King Of The Hawaiian Steel Guitar'
Gerald's Fingerstyle Guitar Website
Board of Directors Hawaiian Steel Guitar Association
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Rick Aiello
From:
Berryville, VA USA
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Posted 24 Feb 2005 7:47 am
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Shoot ... add steel players to your list too ...
I am always surprised at the "lack of attention" that Andy Iona and Bobby Nichols gets ... compared to more "modern" steel players.
I post songs from 'em ... as I just did ... and maybe get 1 or 2 responses ... 
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Aiello's House of Gauss
My wife and I don't think alike. She donates money to the homeless and I donate money to the topless! ... R. Dangerfield
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Howard Tate
From:
Leesville, Louisiana, USA, R.I.P.
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Posted 24 Feb 2005 8:07 am
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I know us psg'ers get pretty narrow minded about our instruments, as I'm sure non peddlers do. Often I'm guilty of thinking of how the song relates to what I try to do instead of just listening to the music. I truly love Hiwaiian music, as long as it has steel in it. I stopped listening when all I could hear on the air was Harry Owens orchestra with no steel. That didn't sound like Hawaiian music to me, it just sounded like any other orchestra. Finding this forum has been a Godsend for me. This is one pedal pusher that appreciates what I hear here. Thanks folks.
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Howard, 'Les Paul Recording, Zum S12U, Vegas 400, Boss ME-5, Boss DM-3
http://www.Charmedmusic.com
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Terry Edwards
From:
Florida... livin' on spongecake...
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Posted 24 Feb 2005 8:14 am
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I think you develop an appreciation for some things over time. I didn't like the first dry wine or "yeasty" beer that I tried. Now I love them!
I used to hate the sound of the pedal steel guitar in country music. It was only when I sat behind one and started learning that I grew to appreciate it and now I love the feel and expressiveness of the instrument.
Same goes for Hawaiian music. My first reaction was not favorable. But I have been lurking on No Peddlers for a few weeks now and listening to some MP3's at some of your web sites and I am beginning to "get it". I can understand those that don't though and maybe it's for the better. When too many people enjoy a music genre and it become popular it loses something - if it becomes "pop" or reaches some financial potential threshhold the record industry suits will take over and dictate it's course. One of the things that makes steel guitar atrractive for me is the esoteric nature of the instrument. That's also the thing that has attracted me to investigate Hawaiian muscic. Some of the MP3 songs I've heard you guys play are beautiful and I'm looking forward to getting a lap steel to see if I can get that "Hawaiian sound".
Terry |
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Mike Neer
From:
NJ
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Posted 24 Feb 2005 8:14 am
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The greatest period of American music was the 1930s (beginning in the late 20s)--that's when Jazz was really coming into its own, and Hawaiian music was really growing parallel to that, especially with the advent of the electric guitar. I love the fact that King Bennie (who is just about my favorite) and Sol Hoopii were intrigued by playing jazz. This is why they were so great and exciting. Andy Iona, Dick McIntire--they were great musicians/multi-instrumentalists, and you know they heard and loved jazz. Just listen to the recordings of Andy Iona on saxophone. They sound like they are imitating Frankie Trumbauer and Bix.
I guess one of the benefits of being unknown in the music business is that you can take chances and change things up when you want. It's like being a kid perpetually.
I listen to the music I listen to strictly for me. It's personal, and I use headphones alot, although my kids are very hip. I've always been a musical scavenger--anyone who's played with me in bands knows this. I always follow my own desires, and I set out to play whatever floats my boat. Right now it's definitely Hot Jazz and early Hawaiian music and early Cuban and Argentian music. I just don't love any of the Hawaiian music from the 50s on (there are exceptions though, Lena Machado)--but that's just me. It all kind of sounds the same to me.
EDITED TO ADD:
I forgot to make my main point, which was to say that I think most civilians are not interested in that music as it exists; however, in the right context, and with great songs and vocals, there's no reason why we can't revisit that style, just with a different slant. But the song is everything, IMO. The steel guitar is just another instrument.
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www.mikeneer.com [This message was edited by Mike Neer on 24 February 2005 at 08:15 AM.] [This message was edited by Mike Neer on 24 February 2005 at 11:50 AM.] |
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Randy Reeves
From:
LaCrosse, Wisconsin, USA
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Posted 24 Feb 2005 8:24 am
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two days ago for my birthday treat my girlfriend cooked a meal for me.
she was at my home preparing the feast when I was at work.
when I did get home she was dancing around the kitchen with the CD player blasting.
she had put on my CD Legends of Hawaiian Guitar Vol. 1.
she said she loved this new find.
another note, with all the new interest inlap steels from the younger players, I hope they would investigate, as I did, what is out there in terms of referrence.
the sophisication of those 20's and 30's swing style hawaiian tunes is deep.
I think it is very relevant to any slide player to know the history of slide.
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Andy Volk
From:
Boston, MA
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Posted 24 Feb 2005 9:57 am
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As far as non-musician friends go, most of mine are indiffiferent at best to Hawaiian music. I once brought a friend to the Jolliet HSGA convention and he was rather creeped out - didn't get it at all. I do have one Russian friend who's not very knowledgeable about music despite his father having been a fairly well know composer in Moscow. When I played him Sol Hoopii's music he was fascinated. He bought Sol on CD and listened to it over and over until it drove his wife crazy.
Like Bill Leff said the other day, I was very familiar with all kinds of American music - especially jazz- before I ever heard Hawaiian music. All the old Hawwaiian standards were completely new to me. I dove into steel and Hawaiin music at the same time in the late 80's. Eventually, I burned out on it and now only listen occasionally. The very best (Hoopii, McIntire, etc.) like any other genre, can be transcendent but there's an awful lot of Hapa Haole dreck to wade through to get to the cream. I still enjoy Hawaiian music but in the long term, I find my ears need more complex harmony and rhythms than a steady diet of 30's Hawaiian music offers. [This message was edited by Andy Volk on 24 February 2005 at 09:58 AM.] |
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Bill Leff
From:
Santa Cruz, CA, USA
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Posted 24 Feb 2005 12:36 pm
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| Most non-musicians I know don't appreciate any Hawaiian steel music pre OR post war. The music is just too dated sounding to them and sounds corny and square. If they do happen to enjoy any kind of Hawaiian music, it's usually slack key guitar (if they are from my generation) or Jawaiian (my daughter's age). |
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seldomfed
From:
Colorado
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Posted 24 Feb 2005 1:04 pm
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| Quote: |
| there's an awful lot of Hapa Haole dreck to wade through to get to the cream |
true, true,... but true for all music - replace 'Hapa Haole' with any category and I find that always to be the case. I think we absorb, mature and move on with respect to music tastes. I used to play in a rock/metal band  Now I crave old standards with melodies, Hawaiian and pedal steel music.
Perhaps because I never listened before?
RE: Andy Iona et. Al. - I've been sneaking in as much Hawaiian music as I can on a weekly radio show I produce for KRFC fm in Ft. Collins, CO. www.krfcfm.org See 'forums' there for show playlists. The
'Steel Guitar Jam'
My show is 100% steel music for 1.5 hrs. weekly. Mostly instrumental, but not always. All types (lap, reso, pedal) and all genres, at least those in my my limited collection (c/w, hawaiian, sacred, jazz, india, reso, bg, blues, rock, ambient, rap (go BJ Cole!)). I've played King Benny, Andy, Dick, Billy, some HSGA folks!, JB and a host of other Hawaiian because I think it needs to be heard, and to help people appreciate the history and breadth of the instrument.
People call in regularly to say "gee I didn't know the steel sounded like that", or "I didn't know it came from Hawaii", or "who was that!?".
The show was the top fund raiser for a morning show in the last membership drive (public radio). People dig it when they hear it. The fan list is growing. I want to 'podcast' it and see what happens.
SO, to the point - to answer Gerald's question about Civilians.....
I think if more people heard it, they'd prob. appreciate Andy Iona and all the rest a little more - I think it's just too new for most ears - or too old. Obviously, unless you're in Hawaii you won't often hear it, and even then it's prob. not hip because it's so old.
I played Owana Salazar one day and got 3 calls to find out who it was. These were not Hapa H tunes either.
Oh ya, I went to the 'HAPA' concert in Boulder last week and the Boulder Theatre was packed. People were diggin' it. Course, half the audience was the local Hawaiian community. No steel though! (Jeff, get in there buddy!)
my tuppence,
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Chris Kennison
Ft. Collins, Colorado
"There is no spoon" www.book-em-danno.com www.seldomfed.com
[This message was edited by seldomfed on 24 February 2005 at 01:07 PM.] [This message was edited by seldomfed on 24 February 2005 at 01:08 PM.] |
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HowardR
From:
N.Y.C.-Fire Island-Asheville
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Posted 24 Feb 2005 6:30 pm
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My non musician friends think that I'm very weird. Well, that's understandable but most of them are locked into 70s light rock and have not budged since the 70s.
As I'm one of the few with a car (truck actually), whenever there is an event that requires driving, people want a ride. My stipulations are, I ride with the window(s) open, I smoke a cigar, and I listen to MY music at my MY levels. This is when I can force, er, I mean expose them to Sol, Andy, and the rest of the gang. My friends go along with it because taking the train is very inconvenient. When we reach our destination, everyone has crazy wind blown hair, smells like a corona maduro, and has this high pitched ringing in their ears.
I wonder why I'm still single at 55? [This message was edited by HowardR on 24 February 2005 at 06:36 PM.] |
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Don Kona Woods
From:
Hawaiian Kama'aina
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Posted 24 Feb 2005 10:17 pm
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In answer to Gerald’s initial question:
When I play a variety of Hawaiian steel guitar music, using CD’s or cassettes, most people are amazed that there is a lot more variety than they expected. Most of these persons had stereotyped Hawaiian music, thinking that all it was .....was slow, dreamy music that puts you to sleep.
Hawaiian music has many genres even when it comes to steel guitar
CLASSICAL HAWAIIAN
HULA
JAZZ
HAPA HAOLE
SACRED HAWAIIAN
Then non-steel guitar related:
THE CHANT
Lately:
JAWAIIAN
PROTEST MUSIC
Merle Kekuku, an old timer and Hawaiian entertainer since gone, used to communicate with me and others, especially through a round robin Hawaiian steel guitar tape club that Hawaiian music had many aspects to it. Some of the above were his points.
I may have left out one or two, but if you know of others, would you post it?
Aloha,
Don.
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George Keoki Lake
From:
Edmonton, AB., Canada
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Posted 24 Feb 2005 10:49 pm
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| Hawaiian music to most everyone I ever meet is "Tiny Bubbles" or "Pearly Shells". They have heard of Don Ho, but that's the extent of it. Anyone who comes to my home is told in advance to expect to hear Hawaiian music and surprisingly, they enjoy it ! I made mention in another thread that a Hawaiian vacation to most, (especially younger people), bears no relationship to Hawaiian music whatsoever. Their idea of a great Hawaiian vacation is surf, sun and Hardrock Cafe. Most, when they return and when asked if they enjoyed Hawaiian music while they were in Hawai'i have a blank look on their faces. Ya gotta feel sorry for them in missing out on this great form of music. |
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Ray Montee
From:
Portland, Oregon (deceased)
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Posted 24 Feb 2005 11:57 pm
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I've found that many folks that comprise the listening audiences of today........are deeply into the words of a song; or, prefer the great BIG sound of Boom-boom-boom of the electric bassguitar. A majority, I'm afraid, cannot identify a steel guitar from a Ukelele, nor do they really care.
Here on the Forum, for example, there are those serious steel players who will often boast of this or that steel players fabulous
techniques and yet in reality, CANNOT identify the huge difference in playing styles, tone and signature sounds of, let's say, Don Helms and Jerry Byrd. (This is not a slap at Don Helms) The difference in their two totally different playing styles is
homongas and if one can't tell the difference between the two of these players (used here as examples, only!)from Hank Williams Sr.'s records........then I would strongly recommend an 'EAR TUNE-UP'.
When this reality is applied to non-musicians within the listening audience, it's easy to see why the steel guitar is so often overlooked.
About the only time on television these days, where one might hear the steel guitar is in some smoke filled bar scene from a made-for TV drama or, the rinky dink steel playing on some "passion fruit" or "cruise ship" commercial. |
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Ian McLatchie
From:
Sechelt, British Columbia
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Posted 25 Feb 2005 4:04 am
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Sure, the overwhelming majority of "civilians" are, at best, indifferent to Hawaiian music, but it's hardly unique in that regard. Even most musicians I know have a very limited appreciation of the musics I love best, not just Hawaiian music of the '20s and '30s, but also jazz and dance bands, blues and country of the same period. On the other hand, over the years I've turned many, many people on to all this music, including a number of my 17 and 18 year old students who now have customized anthologies of Sol, Bennie and Andy in their CD collections, as well as similar compilations of Jimmie Rodgers, Charlie Patton, Louis Armstrong, etc. I'm supposed to get together soon with one former student, now a third year music student in his early twenties, to work up some tunes for steel, ukulele, bass and drums. I'll be sure to throw a couple of Hawaiian standards into the mix.
As for the fact that people regard Hawaiian music as "cartoon music," I've actually found that to be a pretty big selling point! |
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Don Kona Woods
From:
Hawaiian Kama'aina
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Posted 25 Feb 2005 9:49 am
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THESE PREVIOUS POSTS JUST GO TO SHOW YOU THAT THE GENERAL PUBLIC NEEDS TO BE EXPOSED TO THE MUSIC AND EDUCATED.
WHO IS GOING TO DO IT?[This message was edited by Don Kona Woods on 25 February 2005 at 09:50 AM.] |
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Gerald Ross
From:
Ann Arbor, Michigan, USA
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HowardR
From:
N.Y.C.-Fire Island-Asheville
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Posted 25 Feb 2005 10:13 am
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| Quote: |
| WHO IS GOING TO DO IT |
We all do what we can. It's a cumulative effort.[This message was edited by HowardR on 25 February 2005 at 10:14 AM.] |
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Ron Whitfield
From:
Kaaawa, Hawaii, USA
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Posted 25 Feb 2005 11:05 am
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Come on Gerald, give ol' Zimmy break. He plays some steel (a blond Fender 2x8 StringMaster), and has been known to write an acceptable lyric or tune on occassion.
"Remember my friend, it's just blowin' in the wind" ...heh heh
As for the cartoon referance to Hawaiian music, I've heard the same said about Tex Williams and the Western Caravan. At first glance, sometimes this might be true for both, but a little deeper look it shows quite a bit of sophistication and a whole lot of talent.
These are both far from what I was used/in to 30 years ago, and the general public has little time or patience to spend with 'different' styles to find out they actually dig it. I grew up in the hot bed of So. Cal Western Swing and at the time didn't know to care, and being young and dumb, didn't care to know til I got hit with a ton of the good stuff. It's an exposure/appreciation thing that sometimes takes a lot of time to grow into. Then you might find out it's a perfect fit. |
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HowardR
From:
N.Y.C.-Fire Island-Asheville
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Posted 25 Feb 2005 11:08 am
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| Yep, kinda like brussell sprouts. Couldn't be bothered with them as a kid. |
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Ron Whitfield
From:
Kaaawa, Hawaii, USA
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Posted 25 Feb 2005 11:22 am
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| But, do ya like em' now? |
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seldomfed
From:
Colorado
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Posted 25 Feb 2005 11:29 am
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no, no, I sing it like this
"supplied with sheep"
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Howard Tate
From:
Leesville, Louisiana, USA, R.I.P.
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Posted 25 Feb 2005 12:39 pm
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I think you've got a point there, Gerald. All the years I backed singers with my six string, some time during the night I would usually play an instrumental just for me. Almost every time, when it was over some one would yell "play something good now". If it didn't have words it wasn't music. One of the reasons I retired, now I play what I want and my wife loves it.
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Howard, 'Les Paul Recording, Zum S12U, Vegas 400, Boss ME-5, Boss DM-3
http://www.Charmedmusic.com
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Steve Pierce
From:
San Rafael, California, USA
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Posted 25 Feb 2005 1:16 pm
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It sounds like we all have more than a passing interest in music. That's why we're here.
I like the cult status of our instrument. If more people were into steel guitar, they'd probably ruin it for us somehow!
It's like when you first discover an artist that you really like. Then they get popular and you can't stand to listen to them for some reason.
Actually it's like wearing Aloha shirts. I've always worn them, but now they're so popular that people think I'm just following some trend.
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Steve Pierce |
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Bill Creller
From:
Saginaw, Michigan, USA (deceased)
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Posted 25 Feb 2005 3:51 pm
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I really believe the young people only listen to thier favorite rock stations and rock CDs. If you ask one who the Secretary of state is, you wil get a blank look. They (mostly) have no idea about current events, but they know all the rock stars and some the outstanding rock musicians.
I have heard a few of the dreaded singer/songwriter types locally, and I have to agree with Gerald on that.
Young people don't seem to explore other music styles. |
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Ron Randall
From:
Dallas, Texas, USA
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Posted 25 Feb 2005 6:25 pm
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George LAke said it best above.
Friends come over and see My 1927 NAtional Tricone and ask about it. I tell them what it is. (Not a clue)They say oh please play something. I start into something like Sand and they are all talking and drinking, totally bored within 30 seconds. Might as well have had the radio on.
I keep it out of site when guests come now. IT ain't worth it.
Even my musician friends say "Don Ho" when I mention Hawaiian music.
I am glad you guys understand.
my 2c |
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