Harmonic Music

Bob Hoffnar · From: Austin, Tx

Music that uses chordal movement seems to be a rather small part the overall music in the world. In our western development of harmonic complexity we have sacrificed so much of what music can offer.

We basicly concern ourselves with making our way from a tonic all the way to some sort of V7 chord and then making it back to the tonic. This is true for most music that uses chords. Most of the world doesn't use chords and the more advanced forms of western music have left them behind also.

To my ear all these "different" types of music like country, swing, rock, jazz, pop,folk, bluegrass and on and on sound just about the same. Only a few small idiomatic cliches separate them.

Bob

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RickRichtmyer · From: Beautiful Adamstown, MD

I once read a very interesting article by an ethnomusicologist (Yes, there is such a thing) who broke the world's music up into three parts:

1) European - This is what Bob is referring to. Very much harmonically based (and restricted) with fairly limited variation in rhythmic or melodic (scalewise) structure.

2) African - Strong emphasis on complex rhythmic structure, use of polyrhythms, etc., but limited scalewise variety and virtually no harmonic structure.

3) Asian music (including Indian subcontinent) - Highly developed use of scales, including microtones and numerous scale variations. Less emphasis on harmonic structure or complex rhythms.

I always thought it was interesting how each part of the world developed a different aspect of music to a high degree.

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Rick Richtmyer
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Bobby Lee · From: Cloverdale, California, USA

I can usually tell the difference between jazz and bluegrass, Bob.

Seriously, you seem to be saying that perhaps we've reached the end of the line with our western chordal complexity. There are those who agree with you.

Take Harry Partch for example. A serious student of composition, he came to the "dead end" realization in his twenties and burned all of his manuscripts, declaring that western music was bankrupt. He then went on to invent (discover?) a 45-tone scale based on just intonation. He invented new instruments to play the new music he wrote using that scale.

Partch's music never changes chords or keys and is, to most of our ears, not very listenable. I think that the important thing about Partch is that he planted the seeds of microtonal music in the west. Once you realize that it's okay to write just intonation intervals into your music, it opens up the sound spectrum in ways that are impossible with just 12 notes.

I think that Ben Johnston was a student of Partch's. Check out the Kronos Quartet recording of his "Amazing Grace". The chordal complexity in this amazing work enters a whole new realm. He freely modulates through the pitch spectrum using just intonation, with some very striking results.

What Rick says about 3 musical traditions is very interesting. We've reached the point where all of the music of the world is easily accessible. I think that the art music of the future will combine those traditions. It will combine complex chords, rhythms and scales.

The variety of music never ceases to amaze me. I think that it is infinite. Two or three times a week I hear things I never could have imagined. What a wonderful time to be alive!

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Bobby Lee - email: quasar@b0b.com - gigs - CDs
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BJ Bailey · From: Jackson Ms,Hinds

Hey Bob, What is called country that is played on today radio ,Is hardly what many would call country.
But rather a southern soft rock pop.
With just a touch of steel and fiddle, to fool the ones who do'nt know any better.
So theres a differants there

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BJ Bailey

Bob Hoffnar · From: Austin, Tx

The main thing I like about non chordal music is it gets me to listen differently. When I'm able to drop my preconceptions about what music is supposed to do I find so much depth and beauty in places I would never have noticed.

That whole "Corporial"(the physical nature of music) concept of Partch's had as much impact on me as his tonal system. When I have heard his music live on his instruments it had a physical effect on the air in the room that I had never experienced before.

Bob

Dave Boothroyd · From: Staffordshire Moorlands

One thing which I find interesting is the way in which the three traditions are merging in some of the modern sequencer based dance music.
The ease with which looped patterns of great rhythmic complexity can be set up and developed on a computer has led to a generation gap so that on hearing Triphop for example, chord players will say "where's the tune?" Hearing a bit of Country, a Happy Hardcore fan will say "Where are the beats?"

The openess of Dance genres to Asian and African influences indicates that the gaps are being closed between the cultural traditions.

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Cheers!

Martin Abend · From: Berlin, Germany

I don't know, Dave,

to me it seems that most of the producers of Dance music are milking the same cow just with different sounds. I consider Dance music as utility music whithout much inventional power.
If the art music of the the future really would be able to combine the three traditions it will produce some amazing things. I once heard a track where someone took a piece of György Ligeti and combined it with a senegalese drumbeat. It worked.

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martin abend my homepage martinabend@yahoo.com
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Bobby Lee · From: Cloverdale, California, USA

It's really hard to do complex harmonies and complex rhythms at the same time. That's why the pop boy-groups and girl-groups only sing interesting harmonies on their ballads. Even if they were capable of hitting those notes with dance-track timing, the audience would tilt on its collective ear.

Last night I heard a lot of African pop music on our local NPR radio station. I love those perfect fourths and fifths in the African vocal harmonies. And since they don't have to think about pitch quite so much, they are free to explore rhythm more in the formal melody.

We hear the African roots in the rhythms of today's dance music, but producers seem to have chosen to ignore the African choral tradition. I can only assume that they tried it and it didn't sell. That's a shame - it's so much better than what the kids are listening to today.

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Bobby Lee - email: quasar@b0b.com - gigs - CDs
Sierra Session S-12 (E9), Speedy West D-10 (E9, D6),
Sierra 8 Laptop (D13), Fender Stringmaster D-8 (D13, A6)

Terry Williams · Posted 20 Sep 2000 7:35 am

the average person cannot appreciate the harmonies of say Manhattan Transfer, where there are true 4 part harmonies.to me, all music comes from hymns or gospel music, as i play country,gospel and older songs from the 30-present, i find it's all related and you can usually put some of one into another type of song.it works for me.for me it's normally the melody and chords first, that has to appeal to me, then lyrics.

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Donny Hinson · From: Glen Burnie, Md. U.S.A.

The little bits of "Microtonal" music that I have heard are "unnerving, anxious, and edgy". Actually, I am at a loss for good descriptive adjectives for this stuff. I guess "foreign and other-worldly, and out-of-tune" are common ones, though. Some people do indeed find pleasure and fulfillment in the exceedingly complex. I, on the other hand, just prefer the beauty of simplicity.

Primitive music??? No thanks, I catch enough flak around here for liking "Old Country Music"!

Bobby Lee · From: Cloverdale, California, USA

But most steel guitar music is microtonal, Donny.

ebb · From: nj

Olivier Messiaen

Susan Alcorn · From: Baltimore, MD, USA

I agree, this is an exciting time to be alive if we really listen to music (and the world around us); so much is available. I think that there are certain musical forms which may be inherent to the human nervous system or psyche, or perhaps they are inherent to physics. One thing I wonder about is those incredibly old flutes they found -- I think from the Neanderthals -- which were carved to fit something approximating our harmonic minor scale or some kind of pentatonic version of it. I find the implications of that to be very profound. But then again, perhaps we have changed more and can accept and sympathetically relate with other vibrations.
I think if we look at the history of music, we can see the ever-widening scope of influence especially in much western music (and perhaps eastern to that I'm just not aware of). Gamelan has been in the classical repertoire for over a hundred years. Maybe that just says something about the west -- searching and never resting.

A very important composer that shouldn't be overlooked is Pauline Oliveros. And I think John Cage will be appreciated much more as time goes by.

imho

Susan

Bob Hoffnar · From: Austin, Tx

As far as I know the abolute oldest musical instrument are these large tuned stones that are in Viet Nam. There are 5 of them and they are tuned to a minor pentatonic scale also.

Any recommendations for Oliveros's music ?

Bob

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