Has anyone learned Takin Off (Bob Dunn version)?

[Tim Toberer]

I know this song has been talked about a lot, but I am really digging in on this one and made some progress. I am not trying to learn it exactly just trying to capture the spirit of it. Curious how far anyone else got?This song has been on my bucket list since I started with steel guitar and only recently feel like I might be able to really learn it. It kind of reminds me of a Charlie Christian solo, where every note just seems so perfect, like he is telling a story or something.

I am not convinced of the high A Bass tuning that everyone says he used. At the beginning of the second solo, it seems like he is doing a chromatic walkup from G#, or even might be a diatonic walkup from E. I listened to it a lot and it is messing with my mind! Actually sounds cool either way. It's just hard to tell cause it is very low and gravelly. It is one of my favorite parts of the solo. Definitely lower sounds than A, but I can be tone deaf at times. Could be A low E bass or possibly A6 with F# in the Bass? Line starts 2:09 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EFMRtJeWBFM

I just got the TAB from Roy Thompson which is in C6. It seems close, but it is not an exact transcription. It is a nice version never the less. I am assuming the Jeremy Wakefield version is in C6? I also do have the Stacy Phillips Dobro book that has his version in it. I am using my pedal guitar, so I can go between C6 and A6 easily.

[Todd Clinesmith]

I learned this in A6. And thought how tough it would be to play in strait A tuning. There are some quick moves without that 6th note in there. Quick moves with the 6th in there really.

[Gerard Egan]

I learned it in C6 (with the 5th on top) which I’m guessing is the tuning JW used on his excellent version from ‘Steel Guitar Caviar.’ It’s a tricky one!

[Mike Neer]

Takin' Off was definitely played in high bass A tuning by Bob Dunn. It's been a long time since I did my deep dive on the tune, but one thing I can say is that you can see some very guitaristic arpeggio shapes that he plays and by analyzing it you can begin to see things differently than looking for convenient straight bar moves. If I can find some time tonight I will demonstrate, but it has been a long time and I don't even have anything tuned remotely near high bass A. Another one of Bob's tells is that around 2:40 of the tune he does a backwards arpeggio sweep of a Bb chord (actually over a minor) at the 13th fret and he has to quickly slide down to get the Db on string 5 at the end of it, which you can hopefully you can hear. I slowed it down to about 20% to really hear it. But his use of open strings is pretty limited throughout and I can hear just a few.

[Mike Neer]

Here is the first chorus tabbed out pretty much as I believe Bob played it.

https://youtu.be/CyN5dcXBrms?si=wMtlv3eTmCMGAbeP

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And Tim, to just touch on what you said about the low note in his second solo, it's actually A, which is the 3rd of F, and he does the chromatic run up from the 3rd to the 5th using the open string for the 3rd.

[Tim Toberer]

Mike thank you! That is incredible.... Pretty amazing watching you play through that. This just seems like such a great solo to learn in any tuning, but demonstrating it the way Bob Did it is especially helpful. Can't thank you enough.

And Tim, to just touch on what you said about the low note in his second solo, it's actually A, which is the 3rd of F, and he does the chromatic run up from the 3rd to the 5th using the open string for the 3rd.

The funny thing is I have been playing this in E the third of that is G#. It never even occurred to me that it was played in F! One of the hardest things to figure out sometimes is what key things are played in. Especially with old recordings, maybe the piano was flat and everybody tuned to that or the recording is a little slow, but I definitely hear the key of E. That's one of the reasons it is so important to learn some famous solos. You don't always find what you think you will. And sometime you don't even find what you think you have lol. Either way it sounds good. Anyway, I think you have clearly demonstrated that this is High A bass tuning.

[Sebastian Müller]

I learned that solo already quite some time ago and finally have a Honky Tonk band to perform it. Yes, definitely Hibass A. Bob also played some tunes in C#minor, great stuff, what a player.

[Tim Toberer]

Mike I am looking for insight, I only made it in 1 bar! At the end of the G7 and something didn't sound right. I had to listen to the recording to realize I had been playing it wrong and your transcription is correct. At the end of the first bar (G7) on fret 12 you have A-E. Which in G7 is the 9 and the 13. I was hearing and playing G-D (it actually sounds right too) I was hearing this as part of the coming C7 (5-9) implying a C9th, a common swing phrase, but it seems he is substituting an A7 which is sort of hinting at the coming modulation to D minor. This is the type of stuff that drives me crazy especially in songs with a long string of 7th chords. It is so hard to know what the hell is going on!

Hard to tell what Bob was thinking, but this seems pretty sophisticated and one of the reasons an exact transcription is so helpful and difficult to obtain. It takes people with an incredible ear to figure it out. Obviously not me! I can't wait to see what else I am wrong about! This is so cool. Mike you are THE MAN!

[Mike Neer]

Tim, not everything has to have an explanation or rationalization, though it is always helpful in trying to connect the dots, but it can also overcomplicate some. Bob’s playing is very simple actually and his playing is generally chord by chord. So the A and E you are talking about are just upper extensions of the G7, like you said, implying G13.

[Tim Toberer]

Overcomplicating things is my middle name Yah I doubt Bob was thinking that, but I never thought about a 9 and a 13 that way before, so it seems to have created a useful insight (for me at least). The JW version sounds more like I was playing it. I changed my arrangement to include a full A7 snuck in that spot and it sounds pretty cool

[Tim Toberer]

Actually I realized I am playing a Gmi7 arpeggio leading to the C7 like a ii-V, and thinking of the G13 E like the 3rd of the C. I think?? I guess the Gm7 is functioning the same way because its the ii of F and G7 is the V of C all are leading to F so I guess it doesn't matter.

[Tim Toberer]

I am going to go on a few more tangents here, hopefully people are interested in this. This has me thinking about some things like, why is it G7-C7-F instead of Gm7-C7-F (ii-V-I)? Is it a secondary dominant, V of V (G7 as V of C7)? Is the G7 a substitute for a G minor7? The melody seems like it could be suggesting either chord. This is something that really confuses me with Jazzy chord progressions. It also has me thinking about the Barry Harris approach (which I don't completely understand) which is ii-V-I is just V-I ignore the ii. So really this whole passage is just C7-F. According to Barry C7 also doesn't have to be just C7 it can be any 7th chord a minor 3rd away Eb7-Gb7-A7 (A fully diminished chord) Why an A7 sounds good at the end of the first bar. And the F doesn't have the be F it can be A minor (iii) or D minor (iv) etc. Also all these chords can be embellished to taste. Confused yet? I am! I suppose there are lots of options as long as you like how it sounds.

This tune particularly is unique because it doesn't really have a discernible melody, so learning the tune is basically just learning the solo and embellishing it however you wish (or not) and improvising over the changes. Similar to minor swing, A good description here. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Minor_Swi ... #Structure

JW gets further from the Bob Dunn version in his second solo, and does some really cool stuff. To simplify all this, I suppose this is the goal to learn some licks from Dunn and play them the way you want to hear them.

[Mike Neer]

Tim and others, I urge you to listen to Rose Room. Takin' Off is essentially a contrafact of Rose Room, as is In A Mellotone by Ellington. One thing you learn the more you listen is that most tunes are rewrites of existing pieces. This is called a contrafact.

In early music like Western Swing (which was always a few steps behind jazz), the diatonic ii7-V7-I doesn't offer enough interesting harmonic material--remember this is pre-bebop and the full exploitation of the V7 chord hadn't happened yet. Lester Young and swing players played amazing linear stuff, but steel players had a lot of catching up to do. Charlie Christian and Benny Goodman were likely major influences, and their use of altered harmony was pretty minimal. What I am getting at is the II7 (as in the G7, which is the V of V in F) offered a temporary excursion outside of diatonicism--you are essentially in the key of C for that moment (G mixolydian) until you hit the C7, which brings you to the key of F.

[Tim Toberer]

Tim and others, I urge you to listen to Rose Room.

One of my favorites! I noticed the similarities, sort of learned it a few weeks ago. I have wanted to learn it since high school, but it always evaded me. By the way Mike you are so nice for always responding to my silly questions. I really appreciate it and I hope others can get something out of this as well.

in early music like Western Swing (which was always a few steps behind jazz), the diatonic ii7-V7-I doesn't offer enough interesting harmonic material

That makes sense, so the G7 is substituting for the G-7. I suppose I get that, it is just weird to think about subbing a major for a minor. It is also confusing how much in modern jazz, the ii-V-I is still the most commonly used progression, but I guess when referred to in a modern setting they are assuming all the possible substitutions. These are basic concepts that still trip me up.

Some people may question why someone who is just trying to learn jazz would even concern themselves with more advanced concepts like the BH family of dominants. That is a good question! I guess my whole reason for getting into steel guitar is about more than playing, it is about trying to understand music theory and how it applies to making actual music. Something I used to hate but now oddly really love. It is weird trying to learn a music that has evolved so much.The theory has advanced since Bobs day obviously. For better or worse I try to apply everything I have learned up to now to every new thing I learn. So I figure, why not Takin Off.

[Pete Martin]

Barry Harris’ 4 related dominants are as follows:

Take a diminished chord, lower any note and you have a dominant seventh chord. As an example, take Fdim, the notes F Ab B and D. Lower the F to E. Now you have E G#(Ab) B and D, which is an E7 chord.

As there are 4 notes in a diminished chord, you get 4 different dominant sevenths from lowering one note. Barry called these “family” and said you can substitute them, chord wise or scale wise for each other. These make very cool altered dominant sounds that you hear all over in bebop and post bebop jazz.

I’ve studied Barry’s system on mandolin for many years and was lucky enough to have taken his online classes for almost two years during the pandemic. If I ever get the steel up to speed, at some point I will try some of the Barry stuff on it. It may not fit into the Western swing steel sound, but I do incorporate it in my WS electric mandolin playing as Tiny Moore had a good bit of Charlie Christian and Charlie Parker in his playing.

[Tim Toberer]

It may not fit into the Western swing steel sound, but I do incorporate it in my WS electric mandolin playing as Tiny Moore had a good bit of Charlie Christian and Charlie Parker in his playing.

Tiny Moore is just unreal. Cliff Bruner really shines on the Bob Dunn stuff also. I don't really play Western swing, I am just thinking of this as another jazz tune. The melody is definitely old fashioned sounding and doesn't seem to lend itself to certain harmonies well. Mostly I am trying to learn the solo and add in a little something if I can. The swing era tunes are definitely my favorite. I love Jazz all the way to the early 60's but really start to lose it after that. I don't hear anything recent that inspires me, except some folks who play the old stuff really well.

The brother chords (family of dominants thing) is one of the coolest jazz/music concepts. It may be considered a somewhat advanced concept, but it really simplifies things in a way. The family of dominants for C major starts with G7 is the dominant. Move up a minor 3rd and you have Bb7 the backdoor dominant, move up another minor third (or a tritone away from G) and you have Db7(C#) the tritone substitution, and last move up another minor 3rd and you have E7 (the dominant of the relative A minor). Combine all these notes and you have a fully diminished chord. This is my pedal steel tuning G-A#-C#-E.

How do you apply it? Well I am still working on that but one way is if you learn a line over G7 move it up a minor third and play it over the G7 or move it up a tritone etc. You can move full chords like this too, but somtimes things don't sound right. That is where the art comes in. An extension of this idea is it can also be used over subdominant chords, and others. How does this simplify things, well you are no longer thinking in terms of chords, scales and extensions, you are just playing lines.

My first exposure to this idea was from the Mel Bay Jazz guitar book that I got about 30 years ago. They call it the Parker cycle because it was used extensively by Charlie Parker. They didn't really explain it well but it really caught my imagination. They also mention the Coltrane cycle which is the same idea using an Augmented triad. This sounds way more modern and haven't really gotten into it. I guess Bartok was hip to this idea too!
http://westlondonpianoteacher.com/barry ... nd-bartok/