Deleted Thread

[Shoshanah Marohn]

Friendly Reminder:

This section is for steel guitar players who have passed. I deleted a large thread about President Carter. If he had played the steel guitar, I would not have deleted it.

I'm trying to be true to my father's vision. Hope there's no hard feelings.

[Will Houston]

Thank you.

[David Higginbotham]

Thank you! There are ample venues which cover obituaries for celebrities and political leaders. bOb was somewhat lenient at times in the “gone home” section. But many times he reminded members of the guidelines for whom the section is reserved. To deviate has invited dissension, disagreements and political strife. It was inevitable had you not exercised the same discretion.
Dave

[Fred Treece]

I understand too. It is unfortunate that even paying respects to an ex-president can stir disrespect, and this is one place where that has no place.

I thought it was cool that one Forum member mentioned that he played at one of President Carter’s White House lawn parties. That comment probably would have fit in another section just as well though.

[Peter Freiberger]

A good policy if applied consistently. There are quite a few posts here for people who weren’t steel players.

[Jim Cohen]

You did good.

[Kenny Davis]

No hard feelings here...there's probably 10 more you could delete on the first page alone. I've always wondered why the Forum allows non Steel Guitar related death notices. In fact, I discussed this with b0b a few years ago when some non music related posts were allowed. He didn't seem to worry at the time.

I just wonder why the Carter thread was deleted. Did it get political and I missed it?

[Ian Rae]

If it was about a politician, then it was political.

[Shoshanah Marohn]

If it was about a politician, then it was political.

This was part of my reasoning.

[Bob Bender]

And don’t forget to delete those posts remembering Quincy Jones, Phil Lesh, or Kris Krisofferson. They didn’t play steel either and we must preserve precious bandwith Ms Marohn.

[David Higginbotham]

And don’t forget to delete those posts remembering Quincy Jones, Phil Lesh, or Kris Krisofferson. They didn’t play steel either and we must preserve precious bandwith Ms Marohn.

They were icons of music and relevant to some members who were privileged to work with them. They were not politicians! Maybe you should create your own forum where you have absolute control over content rather than challenge or criticize the admins & moderators in their decisions here.

[Richard Sinkler]

Bob Bender
PostPosted: 3 Jan 2025 9:04 am Post subject:
And don’t forget to delete those posts remembering Quincy Jones, Phil Lesh, or Kris Krisofferson. They didn’t play steel either and we must preserve precious bandwith Ms Marohn.

And don’t forget to delete those posts remembering Quincy Jones, Phil Lesh, or Kris Krisofferson. They didn’t play steel either and we must preserve precious bandwith Ms Marohn.

They were icons of music and relevant to some members who were privileged to work with them. They were not politicians! Maybe you should create your own forum where you have absolute control over content rather than challenge or criticize the admins & moderators in their decisions here.

Both Phil and Kris played with pedal steel guitarists. Read the guidelines for the "Gone Home" section:

Obituaries and remembrances of steel guitarists, their friends and families

[Dave Mudgett]

It was I who brought this up to all the relevant moderators (of whom I am one). Ultimately, Shoshanah made the decision to pull the plug on this one, and I heartily concur with her on this. The reasons I brought it up were:

1. Jimmy Carter was a politician and public figure who had nothing to do with steel guitar, music, or anything else we discuss here. We do discuss lots of stuff here related to non-steel-guitar music, but never politics or mainstream cultural chatter. At least, that is our intent.

2. Political discussions are, especially, strictly prohibited, and frequently (let me notch that up to "almost always") degenerate into slugfests. Recall the Ted Kennedy obit back when? I could scarcely believe the level of vitriol about anybody who had just passed away. This was a watershed moment, after which b0b started cracking down pretty hard on obits about political and other public figures. Slugfests are never OK, but they are absolutely verboten in Gone Home. Period. Full Stop.

b0b always said, and I agree, that mainstream media outlets cover this kind of stuff plenty, and there is no reason to do it here. And further, that these kinds of discussions frequently go "off the rails", much like the old "Off Topic" section did. And BTW, that is why that section was closed.

And don’t forget to delete those posts remembering Quincy Jones, Phil Lesh, or Kris Krisofferson. They didn’t play steel either and we must preserve precious bandwith Ms Marohn.

Lots of obits, over the entire time frame of Gone Home, have been about non-steel-guitar players. Lots of people here have had various close personal and professional relationships with non-steel-guitar musicians, and b0b generally wanted to give some latitude. It is not possible for moderators to know with whom members have been associated, and I for one don't want to get into the game of second-guessing. Beyond that, many if not most of us have deep musical influences outside of steel guitar. Very meaningful people to many of us, as steel guitar players, come from other musical areas.

The original intent, stated by b0b back when, was that all appropriate obits for this forum should appear in Gone Home, just as the original intent was to have all links to steel guitar related topics on the web to be in Steel Guitar On The Web. And that was the policy for many years, until the pandemic hit. Not everybody has followed this policy - many obits have appeared in other sections (often Music) just as many online steel guitar links have been and still get posted in many sections. But that is not what was intended.

There was a change for Gone Home, noted in this thread by b0b at the beginning of the covid pandemic in March, 2020 - viewtopic.php?t=356157 - to quote part of this:

In light of the grim possibility that many famous people will succumb to COVID-19 this year, it seems necessary to remind forum members that this section of the forum is for remembrances of our own families and friends.

Other media, both traditional and online, do an adequate job of covering actors and pop stars. We dedicate this section of The Steel Guitar Forum to the people we've known and loved.

This was a change in the actual policy that had governed this section. Given the circumstances, I think it was the right one - there were nearly daily shocking losses all over the globe, including inside the music community. Some non-steel player obits still showed up, but I think these were mostly confined to musicians who were highly relevant to members here, and this stemmed the flood b0b was concerned about.

But since the pandemic has subsided, I think it is appropriate to revert back to the section's original intention. b0b and I discussed this and many other issues in-person when I saw him in Greensburg, PA in early June of 2022, about 9 months before he passed away. Clearly the pandemic was not entirely over (he got covid while on that last trip to PA), but it was clear that the worst had passed. We were trying to figure out how we should move forward beyond the pandemic before he become ill and passed away.

Anyway - I believe the reason this thread was deleted is that it was clearly contrary to the clear policy that has been in force for many years - no political or other mainstream public figures outside of steel guitar and music. We have learned through hard experience that there will almost always be someone hard-headed and mean enough to make insulting and disparaging remarks about such people who have passed. This is not acceptable here, ever.

I believe discussion beyond Shoshanah's announcement should be split off into a separate Forum Feedback thread. However, I'm going to hold off on that for the time being.

[John Brabant]

Thank you Dave Mudgett for the detailed clarification. And yes, I remember the Off Topic section when it was alive and (not so) well. I remember talking about what I thought would be a benign subject matter and getting viciously assailed. So ditching that Forum section was a great decision by b0b.

Thank you Shoshanah for standing by the rule book and by your dad's vision for this community of musicians.

Happy New Year everyone.

[Donna Dodd]

Many thanks to Shoshanah and to Dave Mudgett for walking us through the thought processes behind the common-sense changes over the years - changes necessary to manage this Forum!

Early on, Bob asked me to consider moderating the HUMOR section.
Having a healthy appreciation of good, clean humor, I agreed to do so. We had a fun run - mostly silly (drum-roll) comments UNTIL a couple members pushed me to my limits as a moderator. I quit. BOB took over, and soon shut it down.

There are always lessons-learned when building something special. Bob watched, listened, and kept order while insisting on respect for his steel guitar community. Let us never forget Bob’s contributions and dedication to his legacy!

[Danny Crelin]

How sad this world ha become.

[Jim Cohen]

Early on, Bob asked me to consider moderating the HUMOR section.
Having a healthy appreciation of good, clean humor, I agreed to do so. We had a fun run - mostly silly (drum-roll) comments UNTIL a couple members pushed me to my limits as a moderator. I quit. BOB took over, and soon shut it down.

Sure, it’s all fun and games until someone gets an eye poked out… (hope it wasn’t me, Donna! )

[Donna Dodd]

I never thought about poking your eye out, but I did roll my own eyes at some of your “creative” comments! I do miss the puzzles!

[Frank Freniere]

Both Phil and Kris played with pedal steel guitarists. Read the guidelines for the "Gone Home" section:

Obituaries and remembrances of steel guitarists, their friends and families

And Quincy Jones was originally slated to produce Buddy Emmons’s “Steel Guitar Jazz” album before being replaced at the last minute.