Two feet on pedals...

Andrew Frost · From: Toronto, Ontario

I am terrible at this. It is not something I practice or really ever do.
But it seems like a total waste of resources to not 'double foot', as the available voicings increase substantially...
Thoughts ?

Dave Grafe · From: Hudson River Valley NY

What "additional voicings" would you find useful on a fully set up D10?

What combination of pedals below would be worth taking your foot off the VP? What useful voicings are not already available on a full Emmons or Crawford copedant?

Ron Funk · From: Ballwin, Missouri

Hi Dave -

Always enjoy seeing your posts on the Forum......

While playing C6th neck, use of P5 and P7 in combination is quite common.

'pretty sure you've heard that many times before.

Ron

Dave Grafe · From: Hudson River Valley NY

Andrew Frost · From: Toronto, Ontario

Yes, that D13 voicing on P5&7 sounds very different than just lowering string 3 while P5 is down..
I agree that the chord types are all available without double footing, but the variety of voicings increases with two feet.

Ian Rae · From: Redditch, England

I use 5 and 7 together a lot, but I have them next to each other with 6 on a lever.

I also have the 7th-string ½-step raise on a vertical, so I can get 5,6,7 and 8 without leaving the VP (I rarely use the full pedal 8)

Taking your foot off the pedal is no problem! It's putting it back...
_________________
Make sleeping dogs tell the truth!
Homebuilt keyless U12 7x5, Excel keyless U12 8x8, Williams keyless U12 7x8, Telonics rack and 15" cabs

Jerry Overstreet · From: Louisville Ky

I two foot regularly but I have pedal 8 at pedal 4 position and the E9 Franklin 5&8 whole tone drop on pedal 8 with lowering 8&9 on the C neck.

Either way, certain voicings sometimes call for two feet on the pedals...especially on some jazz things.

It's just like anything else on the pedal steel. Takes acclimation and practice. Once you're into it, it becomes second nature.

Yes, it does also take some getting use to putting your foot back on the vp and it also takes a good volume pedal that stays where you put it when you take your foot off.

Andrew Frost · From: Toronto, Ontario

Frank Freniere · From: The First Coast

Back in the day Jeff Newman ran the “Mooneared” series in his newsletter which contained several Mooney licks using both feet on the E9 pedals.

Donny Hinson · From: Glen Burnie, Md. U.S.A.

I put P5 on a knee lever, which saves a lot of 2-footing. Cool

Dave Mudgett · From: Central Pennsylvania and Gallatin, Tennessee

I mostly double-foot C6/B6 Boo-wah wherever it's located - P8 on a D10 or P4 on my universal E9/B6. That, for me, is a whole thing unto itself with the other 6th-tuning pedals and levers. All but one of my old Sho Bud volume pedals stay right where I leave them when I pull my foot off. And I'll eventually get around to fixing that one so it does.

Ian Rae · From: Redditch, England

Donny, that's the other way of doing it. I figured that P6 did less and was better suited to a lever. Rocking between 5&7 has some of the same feel as A&B, as I use Day.
_________________
Make sleeping dogs tell the truth!
Homebuilt keyless U12 7x5, Excel keyless U12 8x8, Williams keyless U12 7x8, Telonics rack and 15" cabs

Mike Bacciarini · From: Arizona

On my E9 S10 3/5 (Emmons) I occasionally use my right foot to hammer on/off the C pedal while holding A and B down.
_________________
MCI Arlington S-10 3+5, George L E-66, BJS & Emmons bars, Fender Princeton 65W, Fender Satellite SFX, custom FX rack, 1983 Dobro 60D, SX-8 lap steel, Martin D16GT, Ibanez AS73, 1978 Rickenbacker 4000 custom.

Dale Rottacker · From: Walla Walla Washington, USA

So many ways to arrange pedals and levers. I raise my A's on MKV which works great with the 5th or 6th pedal ... I lower the A's on MKR which words great with the 5th pedal. I need to start incorporating pedal 5 & 7 more as I do love that voicing.
_________________
Dale Rottacker, Steelinatune™
*2021 MSA Legend, "Jolly Rancher" D10 10x9
*2021 Rittenberry, "The Concord" D10 9x9
*1977 Blue Sho-Bud Pro 3 Custom 8x6
https://msapedalsteels.com
http://rittenberrysteelguitars.com
https://www.telonics.com/index.php
https://www.p2pamps.com
https://www.quilterlabs.com

Andrew Frost · From: Toronto, Ontario

Thanks for the input here, all.
I appreciate the perspectives.

Funny that using two feet really opens things up in terms of harmonic possibilities, and yet it is not that commonly done.
With what little woodshedding I've done with it, the process gets smoother and easier with practice, including that re-placement of the right foot.

Pedal layout plays a factor too...
You can't add your right foot on a chord tone / pedal if your left is already down and close to the VP....
So the 'ornamentation' approach, for example, spontaneously adding pedal 7 while P5 is already down, is somewhat intuitive because the pedal 7 added chord tones are over by the VP more or less and the left foot isn't too far over to block it.

John Swain · From: Winchester, Va

FWIW. Emmons used his right on p7 and p8 even if his left foot was idle, but he was the best ever. That said I watched Buck Reid play an entire set and he only used his right foot once (on Bootheel Drag)! I don't use my right foot ever ! Landing back on the VP without jarring it is a skill I haven't achieved in 50 years.My friend Jack Stanton says it a chick magnet though ! LOL

Andrew Frost · From: Toronto, Ontario

ha, a good dance move goes a long way Wink

scott murray · From: Asheville, NC

the stuff I like to play on C6 requires 2 feet more often than not. I generally set the volume pedal and don't use it for back neck playing. I've seen footage of Buddy doing the same, at least for certain tunes.

aside from Curly Chalker's excellent volume pedal technique, C6 doesn't really require volume control the way E9 does. and often in the case of Ralph Mooney, neither did E9!
_________________
1965 Emmons S-10, 3x5 • Emmons LLIII D-10, 10x12 • JCH D-10, 10x12 • Beard MA-8 • Oahu Tonemaster

scott murray · From: Asheville, NC

here's a couple on-topic photos of Big E Winking

_________________
1965 Emmons S-10, 3x5 • Emmons LLIII D-10, 10x12 • JCH D-10, 10x12 • Beard MA-8 • Oahu Tonemaster

Ian Rae · From: Redditch, England

It's clear that when BE defined the C6 pedal setup for posterity, he intended to use both feet because he was confident doing so and was not totally dependent on the VP for his phrasing. So all we need is his degree of confidence! Smile

_________________
Make sleeping dogs tell the truth!
Homebuilt keyless U12 7x5, Excel keyless U12 8x8, Williams keyless U12 7x8, Telonics rack and 15" cabs

scott murray · From: Asheville, NC

Little Darlin is one song where Buddy used both feet and mostly stayed off the volume pedal: https://youtu.be/w43Rdp3TI-4

and about 40 secs into this version of B. Bowman Hop he takes his foot off the volume and leaves it off for the rest of his solo: https://youtu.be/SKbqoFvr8RI
_________________
1965 Emmons S-10, 3x5 • Emmons LLIII D-10, 10x12 • JCH D-10, 10x12 • Beard MA-8 • Oahu Tonemaster

John Hyland · From: South Australia

I don’t know if this is common or not I made a volume pedal with an adjustable back stop so there is a default volume position for general playing and non pedal use. That way when you land back on the pedal and back off you can be sure you have the right volume.

Andrew Frost · From: Toronto, Ontario

That sounds like a handy device John.

That said, you’d think that given the abundant complexity of these machines we play that learning how to put one’s foot back on a volume pedal would be a reasonably manageable skill to aquiire. 😉

Jerry Overstreet · From: Louisville Ky

Yes, it just takes practice, rote, like anything else that we have to overcome playing pedal steel.

One nice thing about pedal steels is that you can customize the changes to fit your own personal playing style. In my case, my first pro steel was an Emmons p/p. It had the traditional boo wah pedal on pedal 4. I didn't know any better so that's where it's always been for me.

I put a whole tone raise, with a half stop, on string 4 on a knee lever and use pedal 8 for more important things for me. [One could also add string 8 but that's something I don't use a lot.]

Because the handful of heavy common pedal 8 changes are now on pedal 4, it unloads that 8th pedal for using several other multiple changes.

I wouldn't go so far as to recommend straying away from the traditional setups too much though as our heroes and pioneers have done most of the homework for the best overall setup for the most bang for the buck.

Ian Rae · From: Redditch, England

I totally agree. The pioneers lead us in the right direction.
_________________
Make sleeping dogs tell the truth!
Homebuilt keyless U12 7x5, Excel keyless U12 8x8, Williams keyless U12 7x8, Telonics rack and 15" cabs

Forum Index > Pedal Steel	Goto page 1, 2 Next	Next oldest topic :: Next newest topic