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Topic: Bluegrass kickoffs on Dobro ... no capo! |
Paul Seager
From:
Augsburg, Germany
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Posted 16 Apr 2024 7:58 pm |
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Ok,this may be two questions. Over the last year I've attended a monthly bluegrass meet in Munich. It's great fun and very friendly and my confidence grows each month to take solos (sorry, breaks). Just this week, I was asked to kick off a couple of songs. Now kickoffs seem to favour banjo more than dobro but you know, " Will the circle ...", I know how to do that ... in G. It's apparently played in A and everyone grabbed their capo! Except me, 'cos I don't have one.
A couple of years back, fate delivered a vintage National Tricone squareneck to me. We're still building our relationship and I wish to learn the style without relying on a capo for any song not in G. Not least because I do not want anything pressing on the back of that metal neck. And yeah,I don't really want to pay €130 for a Beard version.
So two questions:
1) Is a capo absolutely necessary?
2) Please recommend me some recordings of classic or fine dobro kickoffs!
_________________
\paul
Bayern Hawaiians: https://www.youtube.com/@diebayernhawaiians3062
Other stuff: https://www.youtube.com/@paulseager3796/videos |
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K Maul
From:
Hadley, NY/Hobe Sound, FL
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Posted 17 Apr 2024 4:29 am
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Even Jerry Douglas uses a capo sometimes. Josh Graves used a bottle opener for one in the 50s. Yes you can play in any key without one but it’s different. If you’re gonna be a stickler about NOT using a capo then be a stickler about getting the right type of dobro for playing Bluegrass. It’s not a tricone. Dobro capos don’t “press on the neck”. They just clamp the strings. There are less expensive ones (tho not as good) so look around.
_________________
Kevin Maul: Airline, Beard, Clinesmith, Decophonic, Evans, Excel, Fender, Fluger, Gibson, Hilton, Ibanez, Justice, K+K, Live Strings, MOYO, National, Oahu, Peterson, Quilter, Rickenbacher, Sho~Bud, Supro, TC, Ultimate, VHT, Williams, X-otic, Yamaha, ZKing. |
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Robert Allen
From:
Tennessee, USA
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Posted 17 Apr 2024 8:39 am No capo
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| I've played in bluegrass bands for many years. I have a capo in the case but so far I haven't had the need to use it. Probably because I learned the old style before banjo picking on the dobro became popular. |
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Howard Parker
From:
Maryland
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Posted 17 Apr 2024 12:07 pm
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I'm with Kevin. You're already playing a "non-bluegrass" type of guitar so learn how to play in a variety of keys sans capo.
And yes, with the exception on the much maligned Shubb, dobro capos clamp around the strings and never come in contact with the neck, not that it would matter at all if it did.
As far as capo use, with the exception of a single player, every player that I'm aware of since (and including) Josh Graves has had a capo in their arsenal.
ymmv, etc.
h
_________________
Howard Parker
03\' Carter D-10
70\'s Dekley D-10
52\' Fender Custom
Many guitars by Paul Beard
Listowner Resoguit-L |
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Patrick Jackson
From:
Georgia, USA
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Posted 18 Apr 2024 7:43 am
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I think Josh Graves used a capo on exactly one Flatt & Scruggs song, "Blue Ridge Cabin Home," off the Foggy Mountain Jamboree album:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gcZN9x4q4kg
He wrote in his autobiography that he would use a capo with Kenny Baker when Kenny played a tune in B-flat.
As far as kickoffs go, I find it hard to kick off a fast song on the dobro, capo or not, but when I play a kickoff I'm usually trying to do a forceful statement of the (usually verse) melody, with added harmony, embellishment, etc. Unless it's a fiddle tune in A/B-flat etc., I usually prefer to play without a capo. When you use a capo you lose a lot of territory behind the capo.
Some good dobro kickoff examples:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=swkWdMUqhtA
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kMk8MZ-wWl0
A video full of "breaks" that would work as kickoffs (most of the time they're the same thing), as long as the other players can keep up: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ncrcexdXsjE |
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Paul Seager
From:
Augsburg, Germany
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Posted 19 Apr 2024 2:33 am
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| Patrick Jackson wrote: |
As far as kickoffs go, I find it hard to kick off a fast song on the dobro, capo or not, but when I play a kickoff I'm usually trying to do a forceful statement of the (usually verse) melody, with added harmony, embellishment, etc. Unless it's a fiddle tune in A/B-flat etc., I usually prefer to play without a capo. When you use a capo you lose a lot of territory behind the capo.
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Thank you Patrick, that's great information and I appreciate the links!
| K Maul wrote: |
| If you’re gonna be a stickler about NOT using a capo ... |
I'm not averse to using a capo I am just surprised. Whenever a song that is not in G is called, out come the capos! Certainly all the other "dobro" players and most guitarists use them extensively at the meet where I go. I was curious if this was as common in the homelands of bluegrass.
Now I get that all the tasty riffs are "G runs" and layout better with open strings and I don't really know that many yet. But I regularly play swing and light jazz on lap steel (hence my preference for a Tricone as an acoustic option). I've never seen a lap-steel player use a capo!
| Howard Parker wrote: |
| ... You're already playing a "non-bluegrass" type of guitar so learn how to play in a variety of keys sans capo. |
Exactly, that is the reason for my question. I don't feel I should rely on a capo .. and that plan worked for me until the moment of "please kick this off in A" 
| Howard Parker wrote: |
| And yes, with the exception on the much maligned Shubb, dobro capos clamp around the strings |
| K Maul wrote: |
| They just clamp the strings. There are less expensive ones (tho not as good) so look around. |
Over here, I have found two easily available, squareneck capos (meaning, without extortionate shipping costs!):
- "the much maligned Shubb ", which I doubt would go around a Tricone neck;
- The Beard, which is 130€. I can afford it but basically my question is: do I need to!
As to the comments as to whether a Tricone is right for bluegrass - honestly, around here, it doesn't matter. During breaks we try out each other's instruments. The sub-1000€ "dobro"s I've tried are no match; they're too quiet, sound too thin and whiny for my taste. I did play one instrument that I found outstanding - a Sheerhorn. I checked them out - my 1929 Tricone was far cheaper!
Thanks all for the feedback.
_________________
\paul
Bayern Hawaiians: https://www.youtube.com/@diebayernhawaiians3062
Other stuff: https://www.youtube.com/@paulseager3796/videos |
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Patrick Jackson
From:
Georgia, USA
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Matt Berg
From:
Pennsylvania, USA
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Posted 19 Apr 2024 8:44 am
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| My thought on capos (any type of guitar): when they come up with one that moves the dots on the neck appropriately I might start to use one. |
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Howard Parker
From:
Maryland
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Posted 19 Apr 2024 9:10 am
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If you (or anyone) is dead set against using a capo for whatever the reason that is perfectly fine.
Really, as long as your theory knowledge of the neck and knowledge of right/left hand technique allows you to play the music you want to play, that's all that counts.
As a modern/contemporary player it depends on what I'm required to do in support of the song, period. If it's a barn burner in the key of B and I need to be as aggressive as a banjo/fiddle/etc. I'm more likely to consider the capo. If it's a mid tempo/ballad, then perhaps the capo stays in my pocket, no matter the key.
It's not about what I want. It's about what the song requires.
h |
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Peter Funk
From:
Germany
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Posted 21 Apr 2024 1:43 pm
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| I was REALLY happy, when some 30 years ago a friend of mine told me about Dobro capos! Back then I bought a "Shubb" and used it a lot. Some years ago I got a "Charlie's Slide Pro Capo" (https://charliescapo.com/). Best lapsteel capo ever! Period! I even use it on my Rickenbacher B6 (sometimes) ... |
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Mike Bacciarini
From:
Arizona
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Posted 22 Apr 2024 5:25 am
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I second Peter’s comment on Charlie’s Slide Pro Capo. Amazing sustain and super-easy on and off. You won’t be disappointed.....
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MCI Arlington S-10 3+5, George L E-66, BJS & Emmons bars, Fender Princeton 65W, Fender Satellite SFX, custom FX rack, 1983 Dobro 60D, SX-8 lap steel, Martin D16GT, Ibanez AS73, 1978 Rickenbacker 4000 custom. |
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Paul Seager
From:
Augsburg, Germany
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Posted 22 Apr 2024 10:07 pm
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| Howard Parker wrote: |
| ... It's about what the song requires. |
Agree wholeheartedly. Outside of the session I'm not yet playing Bluegrass live so this is not yet part of my thinking.
Since starting this thread I've been experimenting with kickoffs sans capo and as Howard mentions, it requires a good knowledge of the fingerboard to pull it off.
I tried shoving a pencil under the strings but that didn't work out! So, I'll probably buy the Beard when I next order some strings and give it a try.
Peter, Mike, thanks for the tip on Charlie's capo.It has an elegant design but the shipping cost to EU strikes it from my list for now.
_________________
\paul
Bayern Hawaiians: https://www.youtube.com/@diebayernhawaiians3062
Other stuff: https://www.youtube.com/@paulseager3796/videos |
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Patrick Jackson
From:
Georgia, USA
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