Better way of implementing lowers in a pushpull

Nick Krol · From: Rhode Island, USA

The traditional pushpull setup places a lock collar on the pushrod where it connects to the lowering finger in the changer so that the pushrod pushes the lowering finger. If insufficient slack is present in the raise on that string, the raise finger will lift off the tuning screw and the string will stop lowering no matter how far you push the rod. Nothing new there.

BUT what if we remove that lock collar on the push rod so that the rod passes through the hole in the lower finger and presses directly against the raise finger? The string should still lower the same way, and this could allow less slack to be present in the raise. The lower change would be stiffer to compress the springs in the raise system but it might be an improvement.

Has anybody tried this?
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1971 push pull, 1974 push pull, 1972 Twin Reverb

Brian Spratt · From: Oklahoma, USA

Placing the lowering rod at rest against the raise finger will obstruct the ability to do a raise. The lower might work OK, but the raise no longer will.

EDIT: I read your later post about compensating for this with spring compression... makes sense!

Nick Krol · From: Rhode Island, USA

I tried it and so far it’s worked really well. When the raise finger is pulled it hits the lower rod and pushes it back- which just compresses the spring on the push rod by the bellcrank that is actuated by that lower. The location of the push rod on the raise finger means it gives way very easily with the raise

It took some time to get the correct spring sizes on the pull rod and the push rod. I worked on my 6th string which I raise and lower. With this mod I now have both G# strings start and stop at the same time with no slack in the B pedal, and the 6th string G#->F# lower still works fine-just a little stiffer.

This was my biggest problem with the push pull —and it seems other people had the same complaint. Not a problem anymore for me
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1971 push pull, 1974 push pull, 1972 Twin Reverb

Patrick Timmins · From: Seattle

Hi Nick.

I have frequently used that method for a more positive half stop feel for the 2nd string lower. push the raise finger till the half stop, then a collar engages the lowering finger at the same time as the 9th string lowers. Makes for a very positive feel stop for that half note lower. Takes a few tries to get it right.
It is also the only way I know how to set up a tunable split as shown in the diagram below that I just posted on the subject the other day.

You still need the same slack set up on both the raise and lower to allow for both changes if there are raises and lowers on that string.
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Microphones, Recording, and lots of pedal steel guitars!

Nick Krol · From: Rhode Island, USA

Patrick

That drawing is actually where I got the idea, with the “push directly against raise finger” I haven’t done anything with half stops or splits yet beyond the half stop on string 2
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1971 push pull, 1974 push pull, 1972 Twin Reverb

Jon Light · From: Saugerties, NY

I won't be able to get at it for a couple of days but --- I don't conceptualize well with diagrams and I need my hands on the real thing to get a grasp but I'm very very interested in this discussion.

My Universal 12 string has the problem that it lowers the 8th string a full E > D which requires a LOT of slack in the 8th string F lever raise. The F lever has to be positioned way out in left field, as it were, so that it doesn't get pulled onto my leg when I'm lowering the string, interfering with getting down to the D. A pedal & F lever is an awkward leg position, as far left as the lever needs to be. If I could reduce the amount of slack and bring the lever back to a reasonable position it would be a huge win.

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