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Topic: Buying help Williams pedal steel |
Eivind Øen
From:
Norway
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Posted 26 Mar 2024 11:31 am |
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Hi guys
I´m looking to upgrade the pedal steel guitar I have now. Up until now I have had a Dekley S10, An MCI S10, An Emmons Lashley Legrande SD10 and a Mullen G2 with 4 pedals and 5 knee levers.
Ia am now considering ordering a new guitar from Williams as I think these look very nice and I have heard a lot of positive feedback on them. Do you have any recommendations on what I should consider? I have looked at an S12 universal, an S12 extended E9th and a D10, what are the differences and the pros and cons?
In addition, I would like to see the Williams guitars you have with different lacquers to get an idea of how the different lacers look.
The guitar I have envisioned acquiring now is a guitar that I will be able to use everywhere and that will not set any limitations in the future.
Thanks in advance!
Eivind |
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Fred Treece
From:
California, USA
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Ian Rae
From:
Redditch, England
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Posted 26 Mar 2024 4:55 pm
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I have a beautiful S12 B6/E9 universal 7+8 which will keep me busy for as long as I have.
_________________
Make sleeping dogs tell the truth!
Homebuilt keyless U12 7x5, Excel keyless U12 8x8, Williams keyless U12 7x8, Telonics rack and 15" cabs |
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Larry Hobson
From:
Valley Grande (Selma) Al USA
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Posted 26 Mar 2024 5:00 pm Williams steel
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| Good folks. |
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Jared Ruari
From:
Oregon, USA
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Posted 26 Mar 2024 7:54 pm
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| Ian Rae wrote: |
| I have a beautiful S12 B6/E9 universal 7+8 which will keep me busy for as long as I have. |
Do you have a picture that shows how all those knee levers are arranged? Are there E9 ones and then a separate set for b6 changes that you move over to? Or can you access them all pretty readily from 1 position? |
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Ian Rae
From:
Redditch, England
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Posted 27 Mar 2024 1:02 am
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No, but I'll attempt to take one later.
The left knees are arranged in two clusters, left and central for E9 and B6. I'm not a "one big tuning" guy - I think of a uni as a condensed twin-neck - so my setup might not suit everyone. I can reach pedals from the other "family" on the odd occasion I need to.
_________________
Make sleeping dogs tell the truth!
Homebuilt keyless U12 7x5, Excel keyless U12 8x8, Williams keyless U12 7x8, Telonics rack and 15" cabs
Last edited by Ian Rae on 27 Mar 2024 2:41 am; edited 1 time in total |
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Ian Rae
From:
Redditch, England
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Posted 27 Mar 2024 2:38 am
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Upload isn't working too well at the moment but I managed this
_________________
Make sleeping dogs tell the truth!
Homebuilt keyless U12 7x5, Excel keyless U12 8x8, Williams keyless U12 7x8, Telonics rack and 15" cabs |
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Ian Rae
From:
Redditch, England
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Posted 27 Mar 2024 3:09 am
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Here's the copedent:
_________________
Make sleeping dogs tell the truth!
Homebuilt keyless U12 7x5, Excel keyless U12 8x8, Williams keyless U12 7x8, Telonics rack and 15" cabs |
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Eivind Øen
From:
Norway
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Posted 27 Mar 2024 4:52 am
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| Ian Rae wrote: |
Here's the copedent:
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Hey Ian
Is that the factory setup for the universal s12 with 7+5? |
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Ian Rae
From:
Redditch, England
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Posted 27 Mar 2024 6:32 am
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No way! That was my custom spec. I've had a quick look at the Williams website and I can't see a standard setup - which is sensible in my view as everyone has different ideas 
_________________
Make sleeping dogs tell the truth!
Homebuilt keyless U12 7x5, Excel keyless U12 8x8, Williams keyless U12 7x8, Telonics rack and 15" cabs |
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Damir Besic
From:
Nashville,TN.
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Ian Rae
From:
Redditch, England
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Posted 4 Apr 2024 6:31 am
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What's confusing for a lot of people is the number of different "universal" tunings out there.
I just see the uni as a way of changing necks without having to shift your arms! If you think about it, the original A and B pedals were a way shifting from E9 to A6 on the same neck; so E9/B6 is just the next logical step now that we have all-pull changers with plenty of raises and lowers.
_________________
Make sleeping dogs tell the truth!
Homebuilt keyless U12 7x5, Excel keyless U12 8x8, Williams keyless U12 7x8, Telonics rack and 15" cabs |
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Bill McCloskey
From:
Nanuet, NY
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Posted 4 Apr 2024 8:18 am
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Based on what you currently play it doesn't look like you play C6th at all. If you don't play C6th, You may want to rethink a universal tuning. Either stick with an S10 or get an extended E9th S12. A lot depends on your goals. If you goal is to play in a band setting, you probably don't need the low two strings of an extended E9th and it might get in the way. if you play mostly to accompany yourself, or play in a more rock environment where you fill in for a guitarist or bassist, then having the bottom two strings of an extended E9th will be exactly what you want to rock out.
Universal tunings are great for those who play both C6 and E9th and want to be able to play both tunings on a single neck with no repositioning. There is some who say you lose 10% on both necks by going universal. There are those that say, there are things you can play on the Universal you can't play on either an e9th and C6th. Both can be true. Some players like Lloyd Green were happy on a single E9th 10 string. Some players like Rick Schmidt find great things on a D12 with extended E9th and Cth. Some players like David Wright find great things in a Bb6 Universal. Some players like Johnny Cox find great things on a D13 12 string tuning. Some players, like Joe Wright, find great things on a Eb9/B6th Universal. Some players like Paul Franklin wouldn't recommend anything but a standard D10.
since I started 2 years or so ago, I've tried them all. I've owned multiple williams guitars. ALL of them beautiful and sounding great. Next month I'll be taking possession of Bobby Lee's Williams D12 crossover so I can play extended versions of both necks without shifting positions and having the changes of a 5x5 for both necks: 10x10 in practicality.
My advice: you will need to see what works best for you. Good news is, a Williams keeps its value so whatever you buy, you should be able to sell for the same amount of money.
HOWEVER!! If you are first starting out, stick with a Single 10 or a D10. The simple reason is there is a TON of learning material for standard E9 and C6th Buddy Emmons setup. There is practically ZERO for anything else. So if you are first learning, stick with the tried and true, utilize the material available to learn how to play, and then buy a 12 string once you know more.
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Check out the Steel Guitar Union Hall Youtube Channel https://www.youtube.com/@steelguitarunionhall |
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Fred Treece
From:
California, USA
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Posted 4 Apr 2024 9:56 am
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You also have to estimate the time you have to invest in learning how to play.
The thing that turned me off the Uni12 route was all those changes. I counted 49 changes on one of Joe Wright’s guitars. That does not include combinations of pedals and levers, which probably amounts to well over 100 (possibly 100’s - didn’t feel like adding them up) tuning changes on one neck. Now Joe is a brilliant player, and a true ambassador for the pedal steel guitar. I can’t imagine the amount of time he put into his learning process, but I know I did not have it. I had 14 individual tuning changes on my first E9 S10. Really there were only 7 changes because each change was parallel on 2 strings of the same note in different octaves. After 3 years I was still “discovering” new ways to use those changes.
I did eventually graduate to a Williams SD12 Ext.E9. I am totally in love with the guitar and the versatility of the tuning.
Bottom line for me is, there is a lot more to playing pedal steel guitar than having every tuning change known to man available on your instrument. But if you can really dedicate yourself to learning what all those changes on a Uni12 do and integrate it with your technique and theoretical knowledge in the pursuit of making actual music like many others here have, then go for it. |
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Ian Rae
From:
Redditch, England
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Posted 4 Apr 2024 3:06 pm
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I went to a uni because I liked to play both necks but didn't like to haul, let alone tune, let alone restring a D10.
If C6 isn't your thing I don't see the point. Extended E9 makes more sense.
Fred, my unis have only the same number of changes as a basic D10, which is what they mimic. The 49 you mention is just Joe being Joe, I suspect.
_________________
Make sleeping dogs tell the truth!
Homebuilt keyless U12 7x5, Excel keyless U12 8x8, Williams keyless U12 7x8, Telonics rack and 15" cabs |
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Fred Treece
From:
California, USA
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Posted 4 Apr 2024 5:41 pm
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| I liked the C6/Am7 neck on my D8 Stringmaster. I even had some things on pedal C6 figured out because of the slants and behind the bar pulls I had been goofing around with. Pedal E9 just opened a whole new world, and the 12-string was a new galaxy. It hasn’t bored me after 7 years and I am nowhere near mastering it. If that ever happens, maybe I’ll move on. |
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