Speaker comparison

Dan Neave · From: Queensland, Australia

Hi members,

Dan here from Australia hope you’re all well.

Here in Australia it’s hard to test speakers for pedal steel as it’s such a small market and no manufacturers here really focussed on steel details hence reason for my question to you all.

What’s your thoughts on the sound coming out of the Travis Toy speakers compared to the Black Widows or even JBL K130 speakers.

It’s a general question and I am after pretty general answer for the time being to wrap my head around the basic sounds coming out of these 3 speakers for those who know them and used them.

Have a great day,

Dan

Dave Grafe · From: Hudson River Valley NY

I have had the opportunity to compare the TT15, TT12, and JBL K130 in the same cabinet. I have also reviewed the response curves, which confirmed my subjective notions. The TT speakers drop off severely above 3kHz, more than an octave below the high-end roll-off of both the BW and JBL speakers. The BW and JBL speakers each have their own distinctive sound, but both have wider and smoother response curves than the TT's, which have a notable bump in the mids. As always some will love it and some will not.

Full disclosure: I currently have two amps with K130's and one with a TT12, all are excellent tools that excel at specific tasks. I prefer both the JBL 15 and TT12 to the TT15 somehow, but would not hesitate to gig with any of them.

Dan Neave · From: Queensland, Australia

Hi Dave,

Thanks for the fast reply to my post.

Can you elaborate on your statement here for the less educated in sound and audio:

‘The TT speakers drop off severely above 3kHz, more than an octave below the high-end roll-off of both the BW and JBL speakers’

Thanks mate,

Dan

Dave Grafe · From: Hudson River Valley NY

Hoping I don't have to explain octaves to musicians, in other words JBL D, K, and E series speakers reproduce sounds more than an octave higher than pretty much all Eminence speakers. Call it highs, sparkle, zing, whatever, some find this a negative as it reveals all the noises poor blocking skills produce. Others love it because of the greater sensitivity to touch.

ALSO the JBL's put out nearly twice the volume per watt compared with the TT line. And they weigh nearly twice as much.

Donny Hinson · From: Glen Burnie, Md. U.S.A.

Dave Grafe · From: Hudson River Valley NY

Donny Hinson · From: Glen Burnie, Md. U.S.A.

Dave, the reason I asked was that many years ago, I did my own comparison. I set up a JBL D130 and an EV SRO-15 on my bench with no enclosure, each just sitting on their magnet. I then hooked each up to my amplifier, a Twin Reverb, and played records (read: a wide range of frequencies) through them, switching back and forth. The difference was astonishing! The EV speaker, with a rated sensitivity of 98 Db, was significantly louder than the JBL, which had a rated sensitivity of 102 Db.

After doing some study, I noted that the sensitivity of the JBL in their specs was measured with a microphone one foot from the speaker, while the sensitivity of the SRO was measured with a microphone one meter from the speaker.

Do you think this explains what I heard in my side-byside test?

Dave Grafe · From: Hudson River Valley NY

The only other guitar speaker brand that even came close in bandwidth and SPL per watt to JBL has been Altec. TAD's pro audio drivers blew then both out of the water but weighed a ton and cost a fortune.

If you look at the original K series specs JBL clearly states "swept from 500 to 2500 Hz, within 1dB, measured at 1 meter (3.3 feet) with a 1 watt input" and lists a full spectrum sensitivity of 103dB for the K130.

As for your ear test with records, without a baffle the low frequencies are canceled while the mids are doubled, so a mids-dominant speaker such as the EV no doubt would have seemed louder as it has a big midrange bump, similar to the Eminence designs, but if you smooth out that "presence" anomaly the remaining response is decidedly weaker and narrower. The JBL on the other hand is designed to have even response across the full spectrum, an artifact of its hifi heritage, as is the superior clarity relative to other offerings.

The JBL's have a flatter, wider response than EV or Eminence are designing to because it costs a bunch more and that's not their market focus. JBL doesn't go there anymore either, thankfully it's folks like forum bro Jeffrey Maxwell who keep them alive for the rest of us.

Dave Grafe · From: Hudson River Valley NY

Here's a good breakdown on human hearing and perceived loudness, note that the human sensitivity curve almost perfectly matches the response curves of Eminence and other speaker makers seeking to make their speakers "louder" than the others without increasing the actual wide-band SPL.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Equal-loudness_contour

Dan Neave · From: Queensland, Australia

Hi Dave,

You definitely don’t need to explain octaves to me but thanks for your insight here into speaker technology. I will read this a few times to wrap my head around the info.

Cheers man

Dave Grafe · From: Hudson River Valley NY

The best thing you can do is get your hands on different speakers to learn the differences and find what suits your personal style and technique. If you can't afford to buy find a store or a friend that will let you try, and dig up all the technical data you can find. And ask plenty of questions, the only dumb question is the one not asked.

Tucker Jackson · From: Portland, Oregon, USA

Hi, Dan.

My experience with the TT speaker is that it worked great in a Nashville 112 -- but was way too dark when used with a Milkman "The Amp 100." And I think the difference is because the NV112 is solid state while the Milkman has a tube preamp and a different tone stack.

Obviously, pairing speakers to match amps matters. Travis Toy designed his TT speaker to work as part of the Quilter Travis Toy combo rig, which uses a Quilter 202... which is a solid state amp. Solid state amps can sometimes put out some really ice-picky high end, and the TT speaker addresses that by knocking those highs down in a very pleasing way. I think that is the point of that speaker and it sounds just great with the right amp. I bet it is a contender for any solid state amp.

But in a tube amp that has a flatter response, you may not need (or want) to knock down the high end with the speaker to get a pleasing tone. I'm using an Eminence EM12N with the Milkman and it's a much better match with that rig than the TT. I bet a JBL would be amazing too but I've never had the pleasure of installing one.

Dave Grafe · From: Hudson River Valley NY

Um, I admire Travis but he is not a speaker designer. Eminence consulted him in adapting and rebranding an existing design (now-discontinued) and put his name on it to appeal to the growing steel guitar community. I am not saying anything is wrong with this, but let's be real about it. Compare the response curves of the TT15 and EPS15C, I'll let you draw your own conclusions.

Marco Schouten · From: Amsterdam, The Netherlands

Bob Hoffnar · From: Austin, Tx

What speaker brands are available in Australia? I’m a hardcore JBL guy but have been very happy with Fane, Celestion , couple different neo speakers and , peavey in the past.

I’m currently very excited about the Beyma liberty 8 speakers. I’m putting them in my battle condition work amps. They sound VERY close to my old JBLs and I don’t need to worry about blowing them up.

I tried the TT speaker and it is great at what it does but didn’t suit my needs.

Don’t worry about needing a special speaker for your steel. Try something out and if it sounds okay you are good to go.
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Bob

Brett Lanier · From: Madison, TN

I’ve been using K130’s for a long time, but have tried many other speakers along the way. Frequency curves and specs aside, the biggest advantage to the JBL’s is that they cut through a band mix easier, which allows you to play a little bit quieter, and you don’t get build up of frequencies that aren’t usable in a mix.

That said, buying used JBL’s can be frustrating. I’ve bought more than I count, and plenty of them were unusable.

Ken Metcalf · From: San Antonio Texas USA

Depends on the amp. I like TT12s and they are light.
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MSA 12 String E9th/B6th Universal.
Little Walter PF-89.
Bunch of stomp boxes

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