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Topic: Pics of Fender cable guitar modular lever system.. |
Donny Hinson
From:
Glen Burnie, Md. U.S.A.
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Posted 29 May 2023 11:11 am |
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A price for this setup was never mentioned, but I know it would be expensive compared to the price of the guitar. There are probably still a couple thousand of the old cable-Fenders out there (they made over 5,000 of them), but the vast majority are not in good shape, and many have been hacked up by well-intentioned,but klutzy, players. Adding a lever or two is also supremely simple and inexpensive, provided you have a little mechanical ability, so I could understand anyone’s reticence to invest in the work required to market the pictured apparatus.
I still play mine one in awhile, but it does require a certain mindset to accept the limitations the guitar has, compared to more modern guitars. |
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Michael Sawyer
From:
North Carolina, USA
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Posted 29 May 2023 11:14 am
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Yep.
I got 2 400's- i put barnyard knee levers on em,and they got me by for 6 years.
I bought a brand new Mullen,and dont play the 400's much now,due to string spacing.
If i was a machinist,i would be making parts for them.
There is a small but dedicated market i believe. |
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Bob Carlucci
From:
Candor, New York, USA
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Posted 1 Jun 2023 4:47 pm
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| Donny Hinson wrote: |
A price for this setup was never mentioned, but I know it would be expensive compared to the price of the guitar. There are probably still a couple thousand of the old cable-Fenders out there (they made over 5,000 of them), but the vast majority are not in good shape, and many have been hacked up by well-intentioned,but klutzy, players. Adding a lever or two is also supremely simple and inexpensive, provided you have a little mechanical ability, so I could understand anyone’s reticence to invest in the work required to market the pictured apparatus.
I still play mine one in awhile, but it does require a certain mindset to accept the limitations guitar has, compared to more modern guitars. |
I will disagree with our good friend Donny on this... I can say with 100% authority, that after this lever system was engineered, built, and installed by Mike, and then set up by me for my style, taste, and tuning, that it did every single thing every bit as well as any steel guitar I ever owned, as long as we are not discussing things such as 3+3 changers, which I never thought of as very necessary.. It played soft and smooth, stayed in tune, and was 100 % trouble free once set up, lubed up, and strung properly.. It played as easy as the Carter and MSA Classic guitars I had sitting next to it at the time.. One of the lowers had a bit longer throw than a more modern guitar, which was all of a 2 minute adjustment period... I rue the day i sold that guitar and wish I could get it back... Never once, even for a second did I feel I was limited on that old Fender, and I played it just as well as any steel I have ever played.. The main reason so many Fenders are bad players is because they have to be understood, and properly set up.. They are not much like most modern all pull guitars, and most guys don't understand how to adjust them... When you get them right, they play as well as ANY guitar from their day, and I dare say better than most... My 4 always played absolutely beautifully... There was too much great music played on Fender cable guitars for me to ever consider than limited.. Fender had a great design that could have been tweaked a bit, bodies lightened, knees added, roller bearings etc.. they chose not to... Mike's system was an absolute revelation and a game changer.. I wish he ran with it, and to this day I am SICK that I sold the prototype guitar for peanuts.. NO idea why I would ever do that,, but there you have it. SO stupid of me. 4 levers installed in less than an hour, tuned and playing beautifully without drilling a single hole, and the only tools needed?.. a Phillips screw driver.... bob
_________________
I'm over the hill and hittin'rocks on the way down!
no gear list for me.. you don't have the time...... |
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Chris Lucker
From:
Los Angeles, California USA
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Posted 2 Jun 2023 8:59 am
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Generally for a RR knee I use the repro three piece knee levers replaced with real ones on my Emmons guitars and some aircraft cable parts. The same knee can be used for a LL as well.
For a direct pull I prefer to use a pull rod to which you attach a spare changer end tuning loop. The value of the pull rod is that you can easily use a Sho-Bud barrel tuner. Im this photo the LL knee is made of JCH parts.
_________________
Chris Lucker
Red Bellies, Bigsbys and a lot of other guitars. |
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Donny Hinson
From:
Glen Burnie, Md. U.S.A.
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Posted 4 Jun 2023 5:25 pm
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There were several inherent problems with the cable Fender guitars that caused them to fall out of favor. First was the pull limitation, you could only pull 2 strings per pedal as there were only 2 loops on each cable. Second was the "spongy" feel that was attributable to the cables. Due to the stretch and weight of the cables and pulleys, they tended to sag. And if you tightened them up so as not to sag, there was the possibility of overtightening them, with the result being a changer finger that was slightly activated at rest, which caused tuning issues. (Cable mechanisms can never be as positive and accurate as rods!) Lastly, there was only one timing/pedal effort adjustment on the later models, and none on the early ones. So if you wanted to change the pedal effort or throw, you were severely limited with only one extra bellcrank hole, or the option of changing string gauges or changing the return springs. Both of those were rather hit-or-miss. There was also limited space on the changer fingers for loops, so you had to take that into consideration, too. Lastly, the use of pulleys meant that the easiest string pull on a pedal would always move first, and then the harder pull would come in later, so perfect timing (more desired than really required) was almost impossible. I have seen one Fender steel where the pulleys were all replaced by yokes with several holes, which made the timing problem more easy to deal with.
But all in all, these many deficiencies along with no "factory" knee levers doomed the guitar. The more changes that became "Nashville Standards", the more obsolete the guitar became. To his credit, Leo Fender made over 50 changes in the guitar's design over time, many of them mechanical, but he just couldn't keep up with Sho~Bud and Emmons, and the emergence of even better guitars, so he made a last-ditch effort to stay competitive with release of the PS-210. But it required too much factory assembly time, and was released too late to win significant popularity. He gave up, and concentrated on his solid body guitars, which could be turned out like donuts, and were far more profitable and popular. In the end, business was business. |
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Bob Carlucci
From:
Candor, New York, USA
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Posted 5 Jun 2023 2:46 am
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I never once felt the cable guitars "sponginess", and owned 4 of them over the years.. I actually thought they had a fairly positive stop considering the "stop" was in the changer.. The cables and knife edge changer were the reason for the very unique sound characteristics the fender steels had..Over the years, I have seen guys change the pickups yet the guitars had that characteristic sound remain more or less intact. I dunno, maybe I'm just a genius at setting up the cable Fenders[  ], but I never found any playability issues that were of any real consequence, at least none that couldn't be adjusted to in a few minutes seat time...I have owned, set up to my personal preferences , and loved many steels over the years, many brands as well-
MSA,Sho Bud,Dekley,Marlen,Carter, Fessenden,MCI,ETS,Desert Rose, and never felt I was at a disadvantage playing a Fender..
I have written this many times on this page.. My Fender cable guitars played and performed as well as anything made during that era, and better than some of them.. Look ,fuel injection and computer management are the modern way we run car engines.. However, carburetors and ignition points are still perfectly viable, and will run flawlessly IF you understand them, and know how to set them up properly.. There really isn't much more to it than that.. Those "limited" Fender steels made an awful lot of truly great music...
Its like saying a 54 telecaster is limited compared to a $7,000 PRS... Technology and precision is all well and good, but sometimes, tone,soul, mojo, and inherent quirkiness trumps precise tolerances and refined construction... its just the way things are... bob
_________________
I'm over the hill and hittin'rocks on the way down!
no gear list for me.. you don't have the time...... |
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Rick McNamara
From:
Michigan, USA
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Posted 5 Jun 2023 4:34 am Fender PSG
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| Well said Bob!👍 |
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basilh
From:
United Kingdom
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Rick McNamara
From:
Michigan, USA
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Posted 5 Jun 2023 8:15 am Fender PSG
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Hi H,
I’m glad to hear that you are still playing.
Best Regards,
Rick McNamara |
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David Farrell
From:
San Diego, California, USA
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Posted 12 Jun 2023 8:08 pm
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I'd buy at least 2!
Bob, I hate getting rid of any guitar!
_________________
Dave
Fender pedal steels, amps & guitars. '73 Sho~Bud PRO 1 CUSTOM. Emmons ReSound'65 S-10 4x5. |
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