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Topic: Difficulty of pedal steel vs other instruments. |
David Farrell
From:
San Diego, California, USA
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Posted 5 May 2023 8:30 pm |
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| Roger Rettig wrote: |
On the face of it, you're right. But some of the mystifying factors disappear over time. After a period of time, one no longer thinks: 'I need to raise this string a half-step, that such-and-such a knee-lever'. We think 'raise that string' and we instinctively go to the right lever.
As with most instruments, the factor that separates the great from the merely good is touch and tone. It's that case with pedal steel and a hundred other instruments.
In my mind, the most intimidating instrument has always been the solo violin. I'm referring to the very highest level of soloists whose control over those short-scale strings and the tone they bring forth elevate them to the very pinnacle of musical achievement.
A case in point: Hilary Hahn performing Vaughn Williams 'The Lark Ascending'. Her standards are beyond anything we're confronted with. It doesn't hurt that Ralph Vaugh-Williams music is as beautiful as anything ever written |
I agree. In my opinion the violin is the hardest stringed instrument to play, by far. I play 6 string guitar, bass guitar, mandolin, a lil banjo & pedal steel. I tried violin just long enough to know that I'll never play the violin.
I have a lot of respect/admiration for a good violinist.
_________________
Dave
Fender pedal steels, amps & guitars. '73 Sho~Bud PRO 1 CUSTOM. Emmons ReSound'65 S-10 4x5. |
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Fred Treece
From:
California, USA
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Posted 6 May 2023 9:00 am
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| In my opinion the violin is the hardest stringed instrument to play, by far. |
There probably aren’t many fat-fingered fiddle virtuosos out there.
Pedal steel is not similarly anatomically limiting. As far as I can see, anyone could take a crack at it and attempt to reach the limits of their imagination and physical ability. So, the difficulty in learning to play it and getting to that virtuoso status of Emmons-Franklin-Chalker-Anderson level is more universal.
I will say this about violin, based on my own experience. It is quite possibly the most annoying instrument to learn for others in your household. |
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Roger Rettig
From:
Naples, FL
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Posted 6 May 2023 10:49 am
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I agree, Fred.
Back in the Dark Days when I had a banjo, it was difficult being in the same room as me when I practiced.
_________________
Roger Rettig - Emmons D10s, Quilter TT-12, B-bender Teles and old Martins.
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Rick Tschantz
From:
Lutz, FL
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Posted 13 May 2023 3:21 pm Would learning the Dobro or Lap Steel first be helpful?
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| I came to the pedal steel at age 68 with no musical instrament background. I am obviously finding it difficult which makes it frustrating but I really want to learn and progress on it. I love the sound. Would it be a good idea to learn the Dobro or Lap Steel first? Maybe I would progress quicker; learn some skills there and later return to the Pedal Steel? I would like to make an instrament sound good and I'm not getting any younger. |
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Rick Campbell
From:
Sneedville, TN, USA
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Posted 13 May 2023 6:15 pm Re: Would learning the Dobro or Lap Steel first be helpful?
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| Rick Tschantz wrote: |
| I came to the pedal steel at age 68 with no musical instrament background. I am obviously finding it difficult which makes it frustrating but I really want to learn and progress on it. I love the sound. Would it be a good idea to learn the Dobro or Lap Steel first? Maybe I would progress quicker; learn some skills there and later return to the Pedal Steel? I would like to make an instrament sound good and I'm not getting any younger. |
If your ultimate goal is pedal steel, I'd stick with it. Pedal steel and dobro are not as related as people seem to think. If I were to suggest anything, it would be learning some rhythm guitar so you understand chord progressions and timing. I would think you could learn guitar and pedal steel simultaneously. Good luck with it and most important, have fun.
PS: you can do it. Remember Colonel Sanders used his first social security check to start KFC.
RC |
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Fred Treece
From:
California, USA
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Posted 18 May 2023 6:12 am Re: Would learning the Dobro or Lap Steel first be helpful?
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| Rick Tschantz wrote: |
| I came to the pedal steel at age 68 with no musical instrament background. I am obviously finding it difficult which makes it frustrating but I really want to learn and progress on it. I love the sound. Would it be a good idea to learn the Dobro or Lap Steel first? Maybe I would progress quicker; learn some skills there and later return to the Pedal Steel? I would like to make an instrament sound good and I'm not getting any younger. |
I agree with Rick Campbell (a fine player!). I think you should start off learning music with one instrument at a time. You have chosen a very difficult instrument for your endeavor, but I don’t believe adding another one will simplify the process for you. Your money and time would be better spent on something like the Paul Franklin pedal steel course, or other private instruction from a reputable player/teacher. And get used to the concept of progressing in “baby steps”. We all do it that way. |
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Rick Tschantz
From:
Lutz, FL
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Posted 18 May 2023 8:29 am
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| Thank you. I am taking the Franklin course and really like it. I’ll just dig in then so I don’t split my focus. Thanks for the good advice guys! |
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Shoshanah Marohn
From:
Wisconsin, USA
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Posted 12 Oct 2023 10:52 am
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I find it really inspiring when people older that me start a new instrument! So many great musicians, artists, comedians, and writers started when they retired. It's wonderful.
I think it's interesting how many people in this thread think fiddle is harder. I took up the fiddle because my dad played steel and I thought that just looked way too complicated! I thought the fiddle was easier because you only usually play one or two notes at a time. I never have played professionally, though, and I think I should have to practice a lot to get into shape for that.
I don't play steel, but my dad used to practice 8 hours every Sunday. Which also makes me think it's hard!
I think the easiest instrument to start on is the piano. You can just see that whole musical scale laid out in front of you! And I also have long fingers.
The hardest might be the bassoon. My daughter played for a couple of years and it doesn't even have a standardized layout of keys, so her bassoon actually didn't match her teacher's bassoon. And those double reeds! Beautiful sound, though.
Maybe second hardest is pedal steel guitar.
_________________
Carrying on the Steel Guitar Forum for my dad, b0b, R.I.P. |
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Roger Rettig
From:
Naples, FL
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Posted 12 Oct 2023 11:27 am
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Correction: Not 'fiddle', but concert violin.
Licks on the fiddle in a relaxed environment are not that difficult; it's the purity and control of the best orchestral string players that I was referring to.
_________________
Roger Rettig - Emmons D10s, Quilter TT-12, B-bender Teles and old Martins.
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Shoshanah Marohn
From:
Wisconsin, USA
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Posted 12 Oct 2023 5:41 pm
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Ah, yes. That is a different thing.
_________________
Carrying on the Steel Guitar Forum for my dad, b0b, R.I.P. |
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Rick Campbell
From:
Sneedville, TN, USA
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Posted 13 Oct 2023 7:26 am
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You guys that think fiddle is so easy, maybe you could share some videos of your playing to demonstrate how easy it is. 
RC |
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Roger Rettig
From:
Naples, FL
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Posted 13 Oct 2023 8:52 am
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Come on, Rick!!
I know many guys who have taken it up with varying results. The better ones could take it on the bandstand but don't come close to Mark O'Connor or the outstanding studio guys.
That median level is achievable by any decent musician if they put the time in and, I'll say again, relatively easy.
Orchestral standards are another matter.
I don't care for the sound, personally. I do know from my friends who have tried it that it takes a long while to even sound acceptable.
I have been exposed to varying levels of competence on the 30-something 'Always, Patsy...' shows I have played. If I'm told they ' couldn't find a fiddler',I'd breathe sigh of relief. An average player can be pitchy!
_________________
Roger Rettig - Emmons D10s, Quilter TT-12, B-bender Teles and old Martins.
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Last edited by Roger Rettig on 21 Oct 2023 12:32 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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Dave Stagner
From:
Minnesota, USA
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Posted 13 Oct 2023 12:23 pm
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I find pedal steel to be quite difficult, compared to other instruments I've learned. Admittedly, I don't play fiddle. The best point of comparison is drum kit, but even there, you're only moving four limbs, not hand + three (or four) fingers/thumb + both knees + both feet (with feet doing different, unrelated things). On the other hand, we generally aren't playing polyrhythms on steel.
I've been playing guitar for over 40 years and achieved a pretty high level in numerous styles and genres, so learning music isn't the hard part. I tried learning pedal steel about 15 years ago and it defeated me. I think that's because I was thinking of it as "lap steel with moving parts". I was a pretty decent C6 lap player then. After six months back, I'm finding it much easier now and making better progress. I think that's because I'm thinking of it more like a guitar than a lap steel - the various pedals and levers are just like fingering chords.
Something I've observed is that there's an assumption that lap steel and pedal steel are pretty similar. Not for me! I find them more different from each other than either is from regular guitar.
_________________
I don’t believe in pixie dust, but I believe in magic.
1967 ZB D-10
1990 OMI Dobro
Recording King lap steel with Certano benders |
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Glenn Suchan
From:
Austin, Texas
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Posted 13 Oct 2023 6:04 pm
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| Roger Rettig wrote: |
... In my mind, the most intimidating instrument has always been the solo violin. I'm referring to the very highest level of soloists whose control over those short-scale strings and the tone they bring forth elevate them to the very pinnacle of musical achievement.
A case in point: Hilary Hahn performing Vaughn Williams 'The Lark Ascending'. Her standards are beyond anything we're confronted with. It doesn't hurt that Ralph Vaugh-Williams music is as beautiful as anything ever written |
Roger, like you, I'm amazed at the skill and the ability to play in pitch that violinists like Hillary Hahn executes. Another, and my favorite is Nadja Salerno-Sonneberg. In 1981, at age 20, Nadja became the youngest-ever prize winner in the coveted Walter W. Naumburg International Violin Competition. Early in her career she was criticized by musicians and conductors as a female soloist because of her flamboyant, rock-star performance style (she often performed in slacks and cowboy boots). She survived a nearly career-ending accident in the kitchen when a knife severely cut her "fretting" hand. She also survived a failed suicide attempt with a gun. Two weeks after which she delivered an unbelievable solo performance at Carnegie Hall. Here she is in her early 20's on the Johnny Carson Show:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ROWnNIVgVyA
Keep on picking'!
Glenn
_________________
Steelin' for Jesus |
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Ian Rae
From:
Redditch, England
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Posted 14 Oct 2023 6:44 am
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I may have responded already but I can't be bothered to look! By any measure, pedal steel is hard. I came to it at age 62 having played many other instruments and with a good knowledge of music theory, and it was still hard, and it still is!
Ten years on I get asked to play because I keep it simple and concentrate on trying to be stylish instead of clever.
_________________
Make sleeping dogs tell the truth!
Homebuilt keyless U12 7x5, Excel keyless U12 8x8, Williams keyless U12 7x8, Telonics rack and 15" cabs |
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Tony Prior
From:
Charlotte NC
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Posted 21 Oct 2023 1:13 am
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When I was teaching this is what was apparent. Getting to the music was the difficult part. Understanding what the AB Peds or what the levers did was not the issue, it was all of the physical attributes that prevented some students from advancing.
Feet, eyes, hands , fingers , knees, ears, and sitting comfortably was more of an issue to students than the actual music. To a few it was too much of a physical challenge or maybe they didn't want to put the time in, so they STOPPED- who can say why.
Not everyone can keep the bar straight while performing multiple physical movements all at the same time. For those who could, teaching or explaining the MUSIC was not an issue. They worked thru the frustrations of the physicals on their own.
_________________
Emmons L-II , Fender Telecasters, B-Benders
Pro Tools 12 on WIN 7 !
jobless- but not homeless- now retired 9 years
CURRENT MUSIC TRACKS AT > https://tprior2241.wixsite.com/website |
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Dale Rottacker
From:
Walla Walla Washington, USA
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Posted 21 Oct 2023 5:40 am
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| Tony Prior wrote: |
Not everyone can keep the bar straight while performing multiple physical movements all at the same time. For those who could, teaching or explaining the MUSIC was not an issue. They worked thru the frustrations of the physicals on their own. |
Some folks are keenly adept at a variety of instruments, with many great musicians unable to or unwilling to jump over the many hurdles that Pedal Steel presents ... Steel is something emotionally in your soul, perhaps like few other instruments.
_________________
Dale Rottacker, Steelinatune™
*2021 MSA Legend, "Jolly Rancher" D10 10x9
*2021 Rittenberry, "The Concord" D10 9x9
*1977 Blue Sho-Bud Pro 3 Custom 8x6
https://msapedalsteels.com
http://rittenberrysteelguitars.com
https://www.telonics.com/index.php
https://www.p2pamps.com
https://www.quilterlabs.com |
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Mike Harris
From:
Texas, USA
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Posted 21 Oct 2023 7:48 am most difficult instrument
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| I think it depends on the instrument/person matchup. To be a top-flight instrumentalist you must have "athletic" hands for your particular instrument and your brain needs to be wired properly, as it were, for that instrument and for music in general. Some people are successful multi-instrumentalists but I guarantee you there are some instruments those people would not have the same high degree of success with. And of course, everybody has to put in the time to make it come together. A great pianist doesn't necessarily have the potential to be a great violinist or a great pedal steel player--not that it can't happen. |
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Paul Sutherland
From:
Placerville, California
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Posted 21 Oct 2023 9:17 am
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The most difficult instrument for me is the Scottish Highland Bagpipes. I didn't start until 3 months ago, at the age of 73. That didn't help the learning curve.
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It don't mean a thing if it ain't got that swing. |
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Bill McCloskey
From:
Nanuet, NY
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Posted 21 Oct 2023 9:38 am
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I agree Paul. I played the Uilleann Pipes and it was definitely the most difficult instrument I ever tried to play. The double reed is nearly impossible to play if the humidity drops.
_________________
Check out the Steel Guitar Union Hall Facebook group for you daily dose of Steel https://www.facebook.com/groups/steelguitarunionhall |
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Shoshanah Marohn
From:
Wisconsin, USA
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Posted 21 Oct 2023 12:23 pm
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I honestly think all of the double reed instruments are among the most challenging. But maybe that's because I'm an asthmatic with crooked teeth.
_________________
Carrying on the Steel Guitar Forum for my dad, b0b, R.I.P. |
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Tony Prior
From:
Charlotte NC
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Posted 22 Oct 2023 2:04 am
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I overlooked this in my above comments.
When I was teaching... A few students came to my studio with Instruments that in all honesty could not be played. I spent time adjusting best I could with what was in front of me, but a few of those S-10's were literally NOT playable. They were junk that the students paid good money for and were now stuck with them.
RE: One specific S 10 had the 3 pedals way to the right of center , sitting properly prevented using the pedals comfortably. Another had 3 pedals in the right place but the two knee levers were in the center of the body. Another had knee levers that weren't even connected , with no rods or bell cranks.
When those students sat behind my Steel, it was a SHOCKING "WOW" moment. But they were already many hundreds invested with no recourse.
_________________
Emmons L-II , Fender Telecasters, B-Benders
Pro Tools 12 on WIN 7 !
jobless- but not homeless- now retired 9 years
CURRENT MUSIC TRACKS AT > https://tprior2241.wixsite.com/website |
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Rick Campbell
From:
Sneedville, TN, USA
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Posted 22 Oct 2023 12:08 pm
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| Tony Prior wrote: |
I overlooked this in my above comments.
When I was teaching... A few students came to my studio with Instruments that in all honesty could not be played. I spent time adjusting best I could with what was in front of me, but a few of those S-10's were literally NOT playable. They were junk that the students paid good money for and were now stuck with them.
RE: One specific S 10 had the 3 pedals way to the right of center , sitting properly prevented using the pedals comfortably. Another had 3 pedals in the right place but the two knee levers were in the center of the body. Another had knee levers that weren't even connected , with no rods or bell cranks.
When those students sat behind my Steel, it was a SHOCKING "WOW" moment. But they were already many hundreds invested with no recourse. |
I had a guy bring me his grandfather's junk fiddle to show me. It was at a music event. Somebody had lowered the strings so close to the neck that they bottomed out with just the slightest pressure. I tuned it up and managed to play a few notes on it, with a very careful lite touch. Then the guy wanted me to play it on stage, but I refused. People have this myth that an old fiddle is something special. Sorry Hank Thompson, but the "Older The Violin" is not the "Sweeter the Music". It's not an automatic age=good thing. If they are junk, they can be new junk, or 100 year old junk, but they are still junk.
RC |
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Roger Rettig
From:
Naples, FL
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Posted 22 Oct 2023 12:45 pm
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True, Rick.
Even with the madness that pervaded the vintage guitar market for a time, Fenders from the early/mid '70s are arguably the worst the company ever made. Yet, once they became '50 years old', dealers were jacking up prices of these lemons. (I know there are exceptions, but they sprayed them too thickly and they were generally too heavy.)
I don't know if this indicates a deep insecurity, but I have a recurring nightmare in which I'm due on-stage for an opening night of a production and I'm late!! Then, to make it worse, when I get to my steel, I find it's a museum piece with rusty strings laying limply on the neck and no pedal-rods are connected.
I'm pleased to waken from that one!
_________________
Roger Rettig - Emmons D10s, Quilter TT-12, B-bender Teles and old Martins.
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Tony Glassman
From:
The Great Northwest
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Posted 22 Oct 2023 3:10 pm
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| Susan Alcorn wrote: |
| Every instrument is difficult to play at a top professional level, but some are easier to get a decent sound out of right off the bat - guitar (Roy Clark's guitar book), piano, kazoo, percussion, etc. And others, like the pedal steel, violin, and oboe, take a bit more work to get a nice sound, even for music that is simple. |
Exactly! Buy a guitar and learn 3 chords and after a month, you’re the star of the camping trip. Buy a violin, an It will be at least as year before anyone besides your mom can stand to be in the same room while your playing. |
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