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Topic: Buy and take a chance on a 2nd hand JBL15” D130’s lifespan? |
Ron la Villa
From:
England, UK
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Posted 4 Mar 2023 1:14 pm |
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Buy and take a chance on a 2nd hand JBL 15” D130’s lifespan or get a new Eminence PF400 Paul Franklin for my Sho Bud Amp?
I’m in the UK and I’m looking to replace the Eminence ME15-300 speaker that my Cain, (Sho Bud Single channel amp) was sold to me with. I’m aware these were originally made with JBL D130s.
I’m looking at buying a Fender Silverface Master Volume Dual Showman Reverb for my guitar work and the owner has a JBL D130 15” in a custom cab he wants to sell with the head. It’s got the silverdustcap but as it’s fastened into the cabinet I can’t see if it has the telltale 4 piece surround or other evidence it may have been re-coned, and he’d probably be unwilling to take the cab apart to see. Even if it’s original, I fear the glue and gauze must be getting on and that it won’t have much life left in it after all these years.
I’m therefore considering only buying the SF Dual Showman reverb head, passing on the JBL D130 and getting an Eminence P400Paul Franklin 15” for the Cain- Sho Bud. Reflexively I of course would Jump on the JBL, but I’m wary of the likelihood of short lifespan on it, and here in the U.K. I’m told no one re-cones these with the correct parts which would negate the point of having a JBL D130.
I’d really appreciate anyone’s thoughts on this and hear what you'd do. (Having a Sho Bud amp out here in Europe is difficult, no one knows them so it’s impossible to get advice).Thanks |
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Donny Hinson
From:
Glen Burnie, Md. U.S.A.
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Posted 4 Mar 2023 5:53 pm
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| Depends. What will you be using it for? That D130 might last for decades with someone who plays like Chet Atkins or Lloyd Green. But rock away with lots of bass or distortion like Curly Chalker or Robert Randolph, and it might be gone in minutes. Weight is also a factor. The PF-400 is heavy, well over 20 lbs.! But the D130 is a "manageable" 15 or so lbs.. And if you have to get the D130 reconed, it won't sound exactly like it did with the original cone. (That is...if it still even has the original cone.) The D130 has more "nuance" and better transients, or sibilants, those sounds that add life and presence to the music. And while the more rugged and powerful PF-400 will handle just about anything you throw at it, it's a heavy-duty speaker, so those aspects may be reduced by the increased mass of the motive elements. |
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Dave Grafe
From:
Hudson River Valley NY
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Posted 4 Mar 2023 7:11 pm
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| IF it's a D130F then go with the JBL alnico, tighter sound, better and smoother highs, more volume per watt so your amp doesn't have to work as hard and stays cleaner. Also several pounds lighter than the ceramic Eminence. Reconing is not that big of an issue, and a reconed JBL sounds more like an original JBL than anything else can evrr hope to. |
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Ron la Villa
From:
England, UK
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Posted 7 Mar 2023 4:59 am
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| Dave Grafe wrote: |
| IF it's a D130F then go with the JBL alnico, tighter sound, better and smoother highs, more volume per watt so your amp doesn't have to work as hard and stays cleaner. Also several pounds lighter than the ceramic Eminence. Reconing is not that big of an issue, and a reconed JBL sounds more like an original JBL than anything else can evrr hope to. |
It's the grey basket D130, not the orange basket "F". Sadly, we don't have anyone out here in the U.K. who recones with the JBL kits, (if they even still exist) and i could'nt find anyone who would want to recone it at all so I'm hoping it's original and not been used very much over the years( I'm told it's hardly been used in 10 years). I'm in London and the seller is in Manchester many miles up North so I'm having to check it's state/ authenticity remotely before I check it myself. I'm waiting to hear back if it has the "21057" stamped on the inside of the cone and if there's any coil rub. I guess what I'm concerned about is if the glue that holds the cone together is still in shape for another 10 years of use. It's for the Cain Sho Bud single channel steel amp which used those speakers but I'm told (I'm paraphrasing and may get terms wrong) they were'nt circuit protected and that if there was a speaker short it would fry the whole amp.It would be great to restore this amp to it's original specs. Then I think for gigging it would be reassuring to have a possibly more resilient speaker. I'll wait to see if the 21057 stamp is in there. I'm told the speaker plays fine so if the stamp is in there then I'm inclined to buy it. Many thanks for getting back and your' input and any advice you have, hugely appreciated! |
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Ron la Villa
From:
England, UK
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Posted 7 Mar 2023 5:17 am
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| Donny Hinson wrote: |
| Depends. What will you be using it for? That D130 might last for decades with someone who plays like Chet Atkins or Lloyd Green. But rock away with lots of bass or distortion like Curly Chalker or Robert Randolph, and it might be gone in minutes. Weight is also a factor. The PF-400 is heavy, well over 20 lbs.! But the D130 is a "manageable" 15 or so lbs.. And if you have to get the D130 reconed, it won't sound exactly like it did with the original cone. (That is...if it still even has the original cone.) The D130 has more "nuance" and better transients, or sibilants, those sounds that add life and presence to the music. And while the more rugged and powerful PF-400 will handle just about anything you throw at it, it's a heavy-duty speaker, so those aspects may be reduced by the increased mass of the motive elements. |
Thanks so much for getting back to me-
I'll definitely be using it in my Sho Bud amp for light pedal steel work and maybe a bit of steel gigging. I'm asking the seller to check if it has the "21057" stamp inside the cone to determine its authenticity and check for coil rub.I'm told it sounds great and it's hardly been played in the last 10 years, (not sure about the 30 years before that!) so it seems worth me traveling the huge distance to inspect it myself if the "21057" stamp is present. However, I've read somewhere on this forum that a knowledgeable speaker restorer said that any JBL D130's that have not been reconed with the now unavailable JBL kits won't have much life in them because the glue, or gauze binding the cone components will be wearing out too much by now. Then I read posts, (albeit 10 years old), saying their D130s are holding up fine.It's just tempting to restore this excellent Sho Bud amp to its original specs by giving it the JBL. |
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Dave Grafe
From:
Hudson River Valley NY
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Posted 7 Mar 2023 7:33 am
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| Ron la Villa wrote: |
It's the grey basket D130, not the orange basket "F" |
Not all "F" series were orange, in fact the majority of those manufactured had the standard JBL grey magnet and were sold directly by JBL dealers, only Fender factory-installed units had orange baskets, and even then not all of those did.
JBL's "F" modification to the D130 and D140 involved widening the magnet gap and applying a rubbery "goop" to the paper surround of the standard D130. No changes to voice coil or cone were involved.
The original D130 sans "F" was a hifi woofer with the same cone and coil as was used in the "F" series, they sound great in musical instrument amps until the voice coil heats up and hangs in the gap, which is the issue that originally led to the modification. Installing an "F" cone in such a basket will not make a whit of difference in an original D130 magnet. Orange or grey, if the label is not stamped "D130F" it is probably not the musical instrument speaker you are looking for, although will still serve just fine in a low-power (i.e. 30watts or less) setting.
That being said, there are quality parts available to recone a D130F basket to original gooped paper surround spec OR upgrade to the superior K130/E130 fabric surround, which is easily my preference. The issue is finding a good magnet, the paper and copper parts are easy. |
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Dan Murphy
From:
Missouri, USA
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Posted 7 Mar 2023 5:30 pm D130s
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Dave your exactly right! I reconed my D130s myself. The kits are made EXACTLY to specs. Same materials and they sound GREAT! This was my first attempt at reconing and was stressful but very rewarding in the end. Simply Speakers.com has the kits. They are a great company and have videos to watch of actual JBL reconing process. I have been asked by a few local psg players, how do you get that tone. They see the D130s in the pair of Peavey Bandits that I run,and are blown away. The kits are 8ohm and are good for 100 watts. If you need to run more than 50watts on any stage in a club then have the sound guy Mic you. Mine came with the CLOTH SURROUNDS! Thats the ticket You dont need a 300-watt amp to run in a night club or dance hall, that's what sound systems are for. I wouldn't use an old original cone d130 due to dry rot and brittle components.  |
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Justin Griffith
From:
Taylor, Texas, USA
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Posted 15 Mar 2023 5:46 am
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I don’t have much to add other than the JBL D/K Speakers sound much different than the Franklin speaker. The Franklin speaker sounds more like the E-series that came later. I personally would not consider anything other than a JBL or possibly EV speaker and that amplifier. Those things sound fantastic. Just don’t let them distort and the speaker will usually be OK. Good luck whatever you decide.
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Emmons/Sho~Bud/Blanton, Fender/Peavey.
Telonics pedal |
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Bob Hoffnar
From:
Austin, Tx
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Posted 15 Mar 2023 11:05 am
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I use reconed JBL's every day of the week. They sound better than anything else available to my ear. Reconing if you need to is not complicated. There are places to have it done in the UK. Most of the JBL's I have bought were blown out that I had a speaker guy fix. It's not a problem. Playing through any other speaker is a problem !
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Bob |
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Ron la Villa
From:
England, UK
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Posted 24 Mar 2023 4:12 am
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Enormous thanks to all of you for your replies.I went up North and carried it back. It passed the coil rub test and came up 5ohms resistance on the multimeter,(within acceptable range for an 8ohm)21057 stamped on the cone.It sounded terrific powered by a Fender '74 Dual Showman 100, (which I also purchased and carried back simultaneously on 3 train changes, stairs all the way , but I'm not complaining, it was worth it 😎).
I have no way of knowing if the magnet has lost any strength or how many more years it has left, but hearing from experienced users that these D130s can still retain quality after a recone, (even now the JBL recone kits are no longer around) is extremely reassuring.
This speaker is going into my Cain pedal steel amp.
The only thing holding it up is the tech working on the Cain has informed me that the Sho Bud single channel schematics I gave him, thinking they would match the Cain amp, are not the same which surprised me as I've read in some places the Cain was the Sho Bud single channel under another name. we're both messaging around trying to source these schematics so fingers crossed.Its been a lot of input trying to restore this amp but it will be great when it's done.Many thanks again to all of you for your time and expertise. |
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