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Topic: Nashville Number System and Modulation |
Bill McCloskey
From:
Nanuet, NY
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Posted 15 Dec 2022 10:48 am |
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How does the Nashville Number system notate temporary shifts in key, changing keys, modulation etc for instance a ii-V I of V?
_________________
Check out the Steel Guitar Union Hall Youtube Channel https://www.youtube.com/@steelguitarunionhall |
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Chris Brooks
From:
Providence, Rhode Island
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Posted 15 Dec 2022 11:46 am
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Bill, to modulate to a new key in a song, my somewhat clunky solution is to write something like "New 5" for the 5 chord leading into the new key. I'd draw an up-arrow above the staff, too.
Imagine we have been playing in C and want to modulate up a whole tone:
. . . | 1 6 | 2 5 | 1 | NEW 5 || 1 6 | etc. |
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Chris Brooks
From:
Providence, Rhode Island
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Posted 15 Dec 2022 11:51 am
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If the new key center is fairly temporary, I'd stick to numbers in the original key. So the bridge of Steel Guitar Rag (say, in E) works out of the 5 chord, right? I would simply keep my numbers referring to the key of E. Here's the end of the verse and the start of the bridge:
. . . 1 | 5 | 1 | 1 ||
[Bridge] 5 | 5 | 2 | 2 | 2 |2 | 5 |5 | etc. |
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Bill McCloskey
From:
Nanuet, NY
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Posted 15 Dec 2022 11:58 am
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That makes sense, Thanks Chris. My only question: if you indicate "New 5", how do you indicate that the new 5 is in D (in your example) and not E or something else (ie. A7 as opposed to B7)
_________________
Check out the Steel Guitar Union Hall Youtube Channel https://www.youtube.com/@steelguitarunionhall |
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Howard Parker
From:
Maryland
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Posted 15 Dec 2022 12:44 pm
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| Bill McCloskey wrote: |
| That makes sense, Thanks Chris. My only question: if you indicate "New 5", how do you indicate that the new 5 is in D (in your example) and not E or something else (ie. A7 as opposed to B7) |
"Key = A" or something to that effect. I don't recall a set rule.
h |
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Skip Edwards
From:
LA,CA
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Posted 15 Dec 2022 2:12 pm
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New 5 works great as long as you also tell how many steps...
This works...
And this, too...
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Bill McCloskey
From:
Nanuet, NY
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Dave Mudgett
From:
Central Pennsylvania and Gallatin, Tennessee
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Posted 15 Dec 2022 2:30 pm
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If it's a true key modulation, I write mod <new_key>, e.g., mod G for a modulation to G at the point where the modulation starts. So modulating from C to G, what used to be a 5 is now 1. On a word-processor typed file, I just write it inline as Chris does, to conserve vertical space. On a handwritten sheet, I usually write it just above the line where it starts, again to conserve space.
There may be some type of semi-official standard for how to notate modulations, but I don't know it. I did a search on this and found several different approaches. For example, this link - https://www.guitarthinker.com/lessons/nashville-number-system - shows an example that uses mod with an arrow denoting the direction (up or down) and then the number of whole tones it modulates up or down. I definitely prefer to indicate the new key because it's easy to write and requires no special characters on a word-processor generated chart. It is also my experience is that it confuses others less. What Skip writes is also very clear and easy to notate on either a handwritten or non-handwritten chart.
I stick with the original key center unless there's a clear modulation. I hear no modulation in Steel Guitar Rag. Here's one academic paper - https://www.midside.com/publications/declercq_2019_jmtp.pdf - that makes an argument for changing key center even when the tonality moves from the major tonic to the relative minor - look at Example 9 on page 15. Standard music notation requires no notational change at all - e.g., the notes of Aminor are written the same as Cmajor. So I would not make a change unless it felt like the section feels, e.g., like it has really moved away from the Aeolian mode - e.g., moving from Emaj to C# Dorian, and even then I would probably not do it. |
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Bill McCloskey
From:
Nanuet, NY
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Bill Cunningham
From:
Atlanta, Ga. USA
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Posted 15 Dec 2022 6:57 pm
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I have seen a stick man figure of skeleton key used followed by the new key like “G” for instance.
If you get the Chas Williams Nashville Numbers book you will see there are many ways and no exact standard.
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Bill Cunningham
Atlanta, GA |
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Bill McCloskey
From:
Nanuet, NY
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Posted 15 Dec 2022 7:29 pm
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I didn't even know there was such a thing as a "Chas Williams Nashville Numbers book" . Thanks. I'll look it up.
_________________
Check out the Steel Guitar Union Hall Youtube Channel https://www.youtube.com/@steelguitarunionhall |
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Peter Freiberger
From:
California, USA
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Posted 16 Dec 2022 6:58 am
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| Chas Williams is an accomplished Nashville guitarist and Dobro player. An old friend, we worked together with David Gates, of “Bread” fame years ago. His book is top notch. https://nashvillenumbersystem.com/ |
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Bill McCloskey
From:
Nanuet, NY
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Chris Brooks
From:
Providence, Rhode Island
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Posted 16 Dec 2022 8:26 am
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I think I am listed in Chas's book as a contributor . .
Anyway, writing in the "new key" is ad hoc, whatever will alert you. Like Bill and Dave, I sort of write it in above the place where the old key becomes the new key.
I like the stick man image! I'll write it in red ink, maybe with a pair of glasses or an exclamation mark: anything that gets my attention!
Note: If I do a more complicated chart, like with jazz progressions, I break down and use actual chord names. |
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Skip Edwards
From:
LA,CA
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Posted 16 Dec 2022 6:22 pm
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Exactly as Chris said... if it's a tune with some complex changes or a bunch of bass substitutions, etc, then letters are the way to go.
And, of course before you start the tune it's always a good idea to point out the mod...where it is & what it is.
It's also been my experience that red ink can sometimes disappear under stage lighting. |
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