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Topic: lloyd green question |
Mark Perrodin
From:
Tucson Arizona, USA
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Posted 4 Dec 2022 11:03 am |
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https://steelguitarforum.com/Forum15/HTML/009217.html
does anyone have a handle on what lloyd means about having a mathematical pedal set up and tuning. i have seen two different references to a mathematical set up but no explanation of the math. trying to learn more. i do not have a background in music theory so this terminology is new to me. thanks. |
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Ricky Davis
From:
Bertram, Texas USA
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Posted 4 Dec 2022 11:39 am
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Yes: Do-Re-Mi-Fa-So-La-Ti-Do is major scale and mathematically it is 1-2-3-4-5-6-7-8
So being able to have a pedal steel set up where the player has the easiest way to play and understand that mathematical scale in any position, and then expand from there.
Ricky
_________________
Ricky Davis
Email Ricky: sshawaiian2362@gmail.com |
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Mark Perrodin
From:
Tucson Arizona, USA
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Posted 4 Dec 2022 1:06 pm reply
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thank you Ricky,
i guess i got hung up by the word mathematical. lloyd probably meant numerical as in 1 means do and 2 means re. i was hoping there was a mathematical secret such as 3-2=flat 6 or something like that. |
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Ricky Davis
From:
Bertram, Texas USA
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Posted 4 Dec 2022 4:59 pm
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| Quote: |
| i was hoping there was a mathematical secret such as 3-2=flat 6 or something like that. |
Well certainly there is and actually a bottomless pit of mathematical variations that does come down the line; but to Lloyd, ONLY if you always start with the math that is familiar to all ears.
Ricky
_________________
Ricky Davis
Email Ricky: sshawaiian2362@gmail.com |
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Fred Treece
From:
California, USA
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Posted 5 Dec 2022 12:14 am
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I don’t understand your explanation, Ricky, and I don’t really see any math in it, other than the introductory rudiments of the number system. It is not possible to know if “numerical” would have been the word Lloyd meant to use without him saying so himself. You know Lloyd personally though, so you would probably be the one here to know that he probably said exactly what he meant to say.
The math of a copedant is in the intervals between and among the strings, and how the use of pedals and levers change those intervals. There is math in how those intervals can be used over given chords to create tension and resolve it. Lloyd Green’s copedant and his technique allow him to produce every possible interval he can conjure up, and he obviously has a pretty good idea of the math and the mechanics involved in creating great music with his system.
That’s kind of how I think of it, anyway, and I prefer a more minimalist approach to the mechanical aspect of pedal steel as well. |
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Ricky Davis
From:
Bertram, Texas USA
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Posted 5 Dec 2022 7:21 am
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Yes Fred; Lloyd was only referring to; having a set up to where the player can easily play and understand the basic music/math layout.
Ricky
_________________
Ricky Davis
Email Ricky: sshawaiian2362@gmail.com |
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Erv Niehaus
From:
Litchfield, MN, USA
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Posted 5 Dec 2022 7:48 am
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Math and music are quite similar, they are both very structured. 
Erv |
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Ricky Davis
From:
Bertram, Texas USA
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Posted 5 Dec 2022 9:07 am
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Ok Mark; and Fred and others, Lloyd; being the giving person he is, sent me an explanation of his words.
Thank you Lloyd; You'da MAN.
| Quote: |
Mark, I was using the term “mathematically complete” in a metaphorical sense in 2005 while describing the E -F change from 1967.
Before D-I-V-O-R-C-E, the first time it was used as an integral part of the tuning on a major recording, I often had to think my way out of dead-ends on an idea, wasting precious moments of studio time. I was never trapped, but often frustrated .
I wasn’t looking for a “lick” pedal, but a real completion to the commercial E9th, one that could be integrated into the language I was trying to speak.
I always knew the E9th tuning was incomplete, missing a piece of the ‘formula’, if you will. With that one change on the two E strings raising ½ tone….I could now play anything I could conceive in a more seamless fashion and with economy of motion.
I still use exactly the same pedal and lever combination today, 5 December, 2022 as the November, 1967 morning David Jackson added that change onto my Fingertip Sho-Bud at the old Sho-Bud factory on Dickerson Road next to Starday Recording Studio.
Cheers,
Lloyd Green
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Ricky Davis
Email Ricky: sshawaiian2362@gmail.com |
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Fred Treece
From:
California, USA
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Posted 5 Dec 2022 10:09 am
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Thanks Ricky. And Lloyd of course.
Funny how we hang on every word from the masters, trying to understand the wisdom therein. Turns out they use words just like the rest of us do, sometimes speaking literally, other times figuratively. Once again, the way has been lighted. |
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Mark Perrodin
From:
Tucson Arizona, USA
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Posted 5 Dec 2022 2:52 pm lloyd
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thank you ricky for carrying the message from lloyd. and thank you lloyd. message received. what a cool bit of insight. the history of this tuning is fascinating.
mark |
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Craig A Davidson
From:
Wisconsin Rapids, Wisconsin USA
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Posted 7 Dec 2022 11:38 am
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Lloyd is so on the money. That change completes the puzzle. It makes the music flow. So many times it has bailed me out when playing melodies, turnarounds, intros and such. Not onlt that it makes it easy to make that major chord a minor by releasing the F lever.
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2013 Williams D-10, 2019 Williams D-10, 1970 Fender Twin, Evans SE200, Fender Tonemaster Twin, Hilton pedal, Jagwire Strings. |
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