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Author Topic:  A pedal 'hanging up'
Roger Rettig


From:
Naples, FL
Post  Posted 24 Nov 2022 11:36 am    
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I have been having issues with my E9th 5th string/3rd pedal (that my 'A' pedal). The B note has returning a tiny bit sharp sometimes.

I just happened to look down a moment ago and I literally saw the pedal slowly coming back up to the 'rest' position. It's just a millisecond but enough to play havoc with the tuning.

I have the springs behind the apron installed: will it make a difference to shorten the length of that spring (tighten it)?

Any ideas about what could be happening? It's spoiling Thanksgiving for me! Smile
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John Hyland

 

From:
South Australia
Post  Posted 24 Nov 2022 12:44 pm     Re: A pedal 'hanging up'
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Roger Rettig wrote:
I have been having issues with my E9th 5th string/3rd pedal (that my 'A' pedal). The B note has returning a tiny bit sharp sometimes.

I just happened to look down a moment ago and I literally saw the pedal slowly coming back up to the 'rest' position. It's just a millisecond but enough to play havoc with the tuning.

I have the springs behind the apron installed: will it make a difference to shorten the length of that spring (tighten it)?

Any ideas about what could be happening? It's spoiling Thanksgiving for me! Smile

Check it isn’t binding before anything drastic. The fact that the pedal does return suggests the spring has enough force. Springs return to their natural state evenly and not suddenly at the end of the travel.
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Roger Rettig


From:
Naples, FL
Post  Posted 24 Nov 2022 2:04 pm    
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I already put a couple of turns on the lower-return-spring. It's still very sluggish and reluctant to come back to pitch.

Where might it be 'binding'?

It's an awful spot in the tuning for inconsistency; it's right in the center of things and really off-putting if you're not confident it's going to drop to pitch.
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Tucker Jackson

 

From:
Portland, Oregon, USA
Post  Posted 24 Nov 2022 3:38 pm    
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Roger, you might troubleshoot it by separating the pull-train from the changer action and testing the changer by itself:

Using a pen or screwdriver, activate the 5th string raise by pressing on the changer next to the nylon tuning nut. If it is still slow to return to pitch while doing this, the problem has been narrowed down to being in the changer.

On the other hand, if it correctly returns to pitch, that proves the changer is working as it should. The problem is probably something in the pull-train that's binding. It could be something rubbing against that 5th string rod, so turn the guitar over and watch that rod as you push the pedal.
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Roger Rettig


From:
Naples, FL
Post  Posted 24 Nov 2022 3:44 pm    
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Thanks, Tucker; you explain things very clearly.

I will flip the guitar tomorrow and see what may be happening.

I wouldn't be surprised if something is binding or chafing. I've taken a few liberties under the guitar and some of the pulls are a bit, shall I say, 'circuitous'? Smile
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Bobby D. Jones

 

From:
West Virginia, USA
Post  Posted 24 Nov 2022 7:46 pm    
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Check the cross rod for the A Pedal, Humidity may have collapsed the front and back aprons a few thousands, Or the shaft bushings need a little lube.
Good Luck finding the problem and Happy Steelin.
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Bengt Erlandsen

 

From:
Brekstad, NORWAY
Post  Posted 25 Nov 2022 12:32 am    
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Too tight lower return spring could cause issues with string not returning to original pitch.
That spring should only be tight enough to pull the lowering finger back to its normal resting position.
The point where the lowering finger rest against the body will act like a fulcrum point and spring can pull the lowering finger in the wrong direction causing string to raise if spring is too strong.
It can also cause issues with lowering rods further away from that spring not performing their lowering action properly since nylon tuner on that rod might start to behave as a fulcrum point as well if that return spring is toooo tight.

B.Erlandsen
Zumsteel S12extE9 7+7
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Ron Pruter

 

From:
Arizona, USA
Post  Posted 25 Nov 2022 12:07 pm    
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Hey Roger. If it is your Emmons, mine was doing the same thing. Being so humid in FL, it's probably the binding cross shaft. Grab the bell crank on the offending shaft and see if it moves freely. On mine the cabinet shrunk do to dryness and I had no side to side clearance. At this point you have a more serious repair than just lubrication. Shortening the cross shaft may be called for.Smile RP
_________________
Emmons SKH Le Grande, '73 P/J bass, Tick tack bass, Regal high strung, and a Coral Sitar, Lexicon and t.c. Electonic rack effects.
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Roger Rettig


From:
Naples, FL
Post  Posted 25 Nov 2022 12:22 pm    
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Thanks, guys!

I think the 5th string problem is solved. I checked the changer as Tucker suggested and it sprang back instantly.

The problem was the 5th string raise rod: it was rubbing against a couple of bell-cranks on its way to the changer. Rerouting it has made a huge difference.

Bengt:
Thanks for the tip. Next time I flip the guitar I will put the LR spring back where it was.

Now to tackle p4! It, too, is stodgy and difficult to use. I bet I could improve the layout of the rods.

I just succeeded in moving things on RKR: it now raises both As to B with a natural feel-stop occurring giving me the A#. That frees up P4.

I want to lower 5 to F; Junior Mercer suggests that might be better on a KL. Ma6be LKR. That's currently lowering my As to G#. Would that work on a pedal?

Thanks to everyone for your help!
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RR - Emmons D10, Quilter TT-12
(Real men play 'Day'! Smile )


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Ian Rae


From:
Redditch, England
Post  Posted 25 Nov 2022 4:21 pm    
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I believe it's more common to raise 6 to get an F, as part of a "reverse P6" that also lowers 2 to Eb

Anyway, I play a uni so I can already raise 6 any time I like! Smile
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Homebuilt keyless U12 7x5, Excel keyless U12 8x8, Williams keyless U12 7x8, Telonics rack and 15" cabs
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Roger Rettig


From:
Naples, FL
Post  Posted 25 Nov 2022 4:30 pm    
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You're right, Ian, it is more common but I tried 'reverse pedal 6' for a while but found little use for it.

I already raise both Es to F on MKV. If you lower the 5th, the adjacent E note is a very pleasant dissonant major 7th. Raising 10 too is a beautiful voicing giving a D in the bass.
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Richard Sinkler


From:
aka: Rusty Strings -- Missoula, Montana
Post  Posted 25 Nov 2022 8:24 pm    
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I have the "reverse pedal 6" on my 4th pedal, I can use it with p5 the same as using p5 & p6 together. I lower string 5 to F as well as raise 1 to D# on LKR. I use the G to F change a lot more than the reverse p6 pedal.
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Carter D10 8p/8k, Dekley S10 3p/4k C6 setup,Regal RD40 Dobro, NV400, NV112 . Playing for 52 years and still counting.
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