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Topic: Weissenborn Tuning |
Brad Richard
From:
Chisago City, Minnesota
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Posted 17 Sep 2022 9:26 am |
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I recently bought a weissenborn and was trying to decide what tuning to use. I ended up tuning to open G6 using the same intervals as open C6. This lets me play all the tunes I already know in C6. I had to figure out chords to use and have done that. Anybody else using tuning like this or have any comments or suggestions?
Thanks,
Brad |
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Jack Hanson
From:
San Luis Valley, USA
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Posted 17 Sep 2022 10:36 am
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I tune my old Maui Maid...
...to open D, but have a couple 6-string lap steels strung up for and tuned to G6.
If another Weissenborn were to fall into my lap, I would most certainly consider tuning it to G6. It's a very viable tuning for a Weiss or a reso, in my opinion. |
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K Maul
From:
Hadley, NY/Hobe Sound, FL
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Posted 17 Sep 2022 10:57 am
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Depending on the intervals G6 CAN be a bit high especially for an older one. I’ve pulled up some bridges! Very light gauge strings should be used but that can create a wimpy whiny sound. I’ve always thought a low C or D tuning was best. Maybe a G with D on the bass string, sometimes a G an octave down on the low string.
_________________
Kevin Maul: Airline, Beard, Clinesmith, Decophonic, Evans, Excel, Fender, Fluger, Gibson, Hilton, Ibanez, Justice, K+K, Live Strings, MOYO, National, Oahu, Peterson, Quilter, Rickenbacher, Sho~Bud, Supro, TC, Ultimate, VHT, Williams, X-otic, Yamaha, ZKing. |
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Jim Sliff
From:
Lawndale California, USA
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Posted 17 Sep 2022 12:46 pm
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Is it actually a "Weissenborn" - or a similar type made by one of the other shops in LA or Chicago?
The reason for asking - original Weissenborns (and many of the similar types from the same era - Hilo, Kona, Schireson Bros) can handle q maximum of 185 pounda of string pull.
And that'w after a thorough inspection by a Weissenborn-knowledgable tech. They are built VERY lightly (and Weissenborns are usually pretty sloppy inside) and Dobro G or heavy-gage C6 tunings can explode the tops, even t 185 pounds.
There are few commercial string setsd that are safe to use - generally it takes a tuning chart, looking up individual string gages on a string manufacturers' website and working up or down thousandth ot two, recalculating the tension.
Nobody can make a valid recommendation until they know the -brand, model and year of your guitar! Meanwhile, DO NOT install any standard set and tune it up - if it's Weissenborn, Knutsen (the actual originator of the type) or Schireson from the teen's or 20's you can easily cause damage that would cost far more to repair than you probably paid for it!
Also if it is a vintage piece buy the book "Chris J. Knutsen..." by George Noe. there's an extensive weissenborn section and some others are covered as well..
If there's a sticker insiude that's usually just the dealer - NOT the builder.
Good luck!
With newer instruments it's best to contact the manufacturer - most are more robust don't have the same tone.
_________________
No chops, but great tone
1930's/40's Rickenbacher/Rickenbacker 6&8 string lap steels
1921 Weissenborn Style 2; Hilo&Schireson hollownecks
Appalachian, Regal & Dobro squarenecks
1959 Fender 400 9+2 B6;1960's Fender 800 3+3+2; 1948 Fender Dual-8 Professional |
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Brad Richard
From:
Chisago City, Minnesota
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Posted 18 Sep 2022 1:36 pm
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Thanks for the replies. It's a new build Imperial built in CA. I've still got the strings on it came with, I think they're just std. acoustics. The open G seems fine, but I'll keep an eye on it.
Jack - beautiful guitar. I was thinking open D, but couldn't find any chord charts for lap steel in that tuning. And I didn't feel like trying to put them together myself. I struggled hard enough just transposing chords from C6 to G6.  |
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Howard Parker
From:
Maryland
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Posted 18 Sep 2022 2:01 pm
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Some Weissie builders publish warnings about tunings and/or max gauges.
Drop the builder a line and ask.
If you notice any movement well, by that time it is too late.
h
_________________
Howard Parker
03\' Carter D-10
70\'s Dekley D-10
52\' Fender Custom
Many guitars by Paul Beard
Listowner Resoguit-L |
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Howard Parker
From:
Maryland
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Posted 18 Sep 2022 2:03 pm
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From the Imperial site:
"Ah well, that is a vast and ever shifting subject. First, there is no standard tuning. Players often change their preferred tuning over time and even invent their own. Everyone has their own preferences. My own preference is EG#C#EG#B, but that is not a common tuning. Actually, I’ve never heard of anyone else using this tuning, so ignore me (but it is great for Santo & Johnny songs).
Dobro players usually play in DGDGBD or GBDGBD. That’s probably the most universal place to start and that’s how the guitar will be tuned to when I ship it to you.
You can use any tuning on an Imperial Valley Weissenborn that would make sense to use on an acoustic instrument like a Dobro. You cannot tune up an instrument like this to a tuning like C6th as used on solid body electric lap steels. If the tuning you want to use requires you to tune the 6th or lowest string higher than A, don’t do it. If you want to play in the popular 6th tuning, just tune to A6th instead of C6th."
h |
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Jeff Highland
From:
New South Wales, Australia
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Posted 18 Sep 2022 3:08 pm
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Regardless of what Imperial say, tuning a weissenborn to C6 is not going to damage the instrument IF you use the right strings.
You just can't put on a C6 set designed for a solid body lap.
Just do as Jim Sliff says below and use a string tension chart to select string Guages for your tuning
The guitar body does not know the tuning, it knows the tension applied to itby the string.
_________________
Duesenberg Fairytale
1949 Supro Supreme
1950 National New Yorker
2008 Highland Baritone Weissenborn
2020 Highland New Yorker.
2020 Highland Mohan Veena
2021 Highland Weissencone |
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Jim Sliff
From:
Lawndale California, USA
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Posted 18 Sep 2022 6:07 pm
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| Brad Richard wrote: |
Thanks for the replies. It's a new build Imperial built in CA. I've still got the strings on it came with, I think they're just std. acoustics. The open G seems fine, but I'll keep an eye on it.
Jack - beautiful guitar. I was thinking open D, but couldn't find any chord charts for lap steel in that tuning. And I didn't feel like trying to put them together myself. I struggled hard enough just transposing chords from C6 to G6. |
That makes a BIG difference.
Just call the uilder - it's always better to talk to the manufacturer if they're still in business than ask questions on a website - you could get answers from a hollow neck tech (like me) or a guy who's never played anything but a kazoo - but likes to type. 
Most modern types of hollownecks build them neater, with heavier bracing to take resonator "G tuning" strings. But a Weissenborn would be dangerously stressed by that type of string. I've reglued tops and reinforced bridgeplates on vintage Weissenborn and similar guitars.
Note for clarity - it's not a "Weissenborn" unless it was built by Weissenborn, just like a "Les Paul Custom" is ONLY built by Gibson - plywood Chinese copies are not "Les Paul Customs". With Weissenborns and modern knock-offs (many of which are very good) the distinction is important because of construction materials and methods.
_________________
No chops, but great tone
1930's/40's Rickenbacher/Rickenbacker 6&8 string lap steels
1921 Weissenborn Style 2; Hilo&Schireson hollownecks
Appalachian, Regal & Dobro squarenecks
1959 Fender 400 9+2 B6;1960's Fender 800 3+3+2; 1948 Fender Dual-8 Professional |
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Lloyd Walsh
From:
San Antonio, Texas, USA
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Posted 18 Sep 2022 6:16 pm
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Hey Jim,
I your experience which of the copy cats or mid level “Weissenborn” like instruments would you recommended or avoid? I’m on the hunt. I appreciate it, thanks!
_________________
Hack Professor of Art
Bass player: upright/electric
Lousy Guitarist
Rookie Steel player (pedal and non-pedal)
Instagram Artwork profile: lloydwalsh7405 |
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Erv Niehaus
From:
Litchfield, MN, USA
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Posted 19 Sep 2022 7:33 am
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I have two "Weissenborns", one is a deep body Imperial and the other, I forget the brand, is from California.
This one is made in Mexico and imported to California for the finishing.
They are both nice instruments.
As far as tunings go, I go way back to the Hawaiian days and the A, high base tuning so I still tune most of my lap steels, including the Weissenborns to A, high base and I use light strings.
Erv |
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Jim Sliff
From:
Lawndale California, USA
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Posted 19 Sep 2022 11:31 am
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| Lloyd Walsh wrote: |
Hey Jim,
I your experience which of the copy cats or mid level “Weissenborn” like instruments would you recommended or avoid? I’m on the hunt. I appreciate it, thanks! |
As with any instrument, it depends on a few things:
1. Your proposed usage - just at home; or jamming with friends; on stage (and whether you to use an internal pickup with or without a mic or external mic'ing.)
2 Your price range
3. Relates to #2 - you can find Hilos, Konas and Schiresons from the late 'teen and twenties for $2-3k that acoustically bury $1000-1500 clones.
But remember one thing: "Wessenborn clones" are koa guitars finished in shellac. Anything is just a "look alike".
I originally bought an $800 used mahogany Goldtone with an internal pickup. OK for home use but every other guitar friends brought over killed it.
Got rid of it after finding a spruce/mahogany Schireson model IV for even less , and like Weissenborns is a lightly built guitar- but a "sleeper" brand built in the same downtown area as most 1920's makers except Oscar Schmidt's "Hilos" (not the junk Oscar Schmidt of today, but a quality builder in Chicago)
I have a Hilo 655 that's all mahogany - Tom Noe has the only other one known of. Brands and makers of vintage hollow-necks: Hilos - Oscar Schmidt; Konas - mostly made by Weissenborn; Greenfield (various labels) and Lyric - Schireson were the "LA builders" with Chris Knutsen in the Pacific Northwest the actual inventor of the design.
IMO among the vintage brands Hilo and Schireson are the "sleepers" (Schireson is still in business, but whether new or used their "direct" prices are double to quadruple what other sellers ask. Weissenborn 1's and 2's have doubled in price in the last few years but worth it IMO.
Boutique builders' instruments will cost you as much as the real thing. And among the +/- $1000 new ones SOME Goldtone, Asher and Imperial Valley guitars I've played are OK. Most are made in China, but that's not always a negative -
But IMO avoid all mahogany guitars and go for at LEAST a solid koa top with laminated koa or mahogany backs/sides; or some of the Spruce/mahogany or spruce/koa instruments. There are several others that are similar - but you have to PLAY them to compare them.
Unless you've played a LOT of brands/models I firmly believe you have to play them - or get a 100% return policy. Every one of the hollow-neck makers puts out duds, and in the under-$1000 bracket it's a real crapshoot.
And NEVER rely on YouTube videos - you have no idea how they were recorded or processed!
Hope that helps
_________________
No chops, but great tone
1930's/40's Rickenbacher/Rickenbacker 6&8 string lap steels
1921 Weissenborn Style 2; Hilo&Schireson hollownecks
Appalachian, Regal & Dobro squarenecks
1959 Fender 400 9+2 B6;1960's Fender 800 3+3+2; 1948 Fender Dual-8 Professional |
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Brad Richard
From:
Chisago City, Minnesota
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Posted 19 Sep 2022 1:19 pm
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Thanks for all the replies and advice.
Jim - I'm kind of taken with the Weiss. sound. I will be much more careful when I purchase another one. |
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Erv Niehaus
From:
Litchfield, MN, USA
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Posted 19 Sep 2022 1:22 pm
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Brad,
I think you did fine with the Imperial. 
Erv |
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Brad Richard
From:
Chisago City, Minnesota
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Posted 19 Sep 2022 2:05 pm
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| Yeah, I do too, Erv. Thanks! |
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Lloyd Walsh
From:
San Antonio, Texas, USA
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Posted 19 Sep 2022 6:09 pm
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Jim,
Wow, I can’t thank you enough for such great information. I really appreciate you taking your time to reply. I’ll hold out longer for something vintage and will research the brands you recommended.
One other question about vintage instruments of this ilk: are rounded, solid neck instruments of this golden era deal breakers? should one hold out for hollow necks?
Also, don’t hesitate to PM if you know of a good one for sale, I’m definitely in the market.
Thanks!
_________________
Hack Professor of Art
Bass player: upright/electric
Lousy Guitarist
Rookie Steel player (pedal and non-pedal)
Instagram Artwork profile: lloydwalsh7405 |
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Bob Blair
From:
Edmonton, Alberta, Canada
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Posted 19 Sep 2022 8:57 pm
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| Lloyd, Kona style instruments don't have the hollow neck and some of the vintage ones are lovely. |
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Andy Volk
From:
Boston, MA
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Posted 20 Sep 2022 3:58 am
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The most amazing-sounding Weissenborn I've played was an original style-1 that had a poetic, gossamer sheen to the tone but was on the quiet side. I recently played two fine sounding vintage Konas as well. All these guitars are lovely but delicate and lighter weight than modern versions. In some cases, the string spacing is tighter than modern versions and you may need to use lighter gauge strings. They have also gotten quite pricey lately.
I own an all-koa Bear Creek and and a tiger Maple Asher. Both these instruments are superb, professional guitars. Paddy Burgin's instruments are excellent guitars as well in my playing experience.
Here's an article on Asher I did for fretboard Journal:
https://cdn.shopify.com/s/files/1/0230/8457/files/2015_fretboard_Journal_article_-_smaller.pdf?5494997172394587517
_________________
Steel Guitar Books! Website: www.volkmediabooks.com |
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Jeff Highland
From:
New South Wales, Australia
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Posted 20 Sep 2022 8:47 pm
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Heres an example of how you would obtain a safe C6 on a modern Weissenborn (using the stringjoy tension calculator)
Number of strings: 6
Overall Scale Length (in.): 25.0
String Pitch String Tension (lbs.)
1 E4 .013 29
2 C4 .016 27.6
3 A3 .020p 30.5
4 G3 .024w 28.5
5 E3 .030w 31.8
6 C3 .036w 27.5
Total tension: 174.9 lbs.
_________________
Duesenberg Fairytale
1949 Supro Supreme
1950 National New Yorker
2008 Highland Baritone Weissenborn
2020 Highland New Yorker.
2020 Highland Mohan Veena
2021 Highland Weissencone |
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Andy Volk
From:
Boston, MA
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Lloyd Walsh
From:
San Antonio, Texas, USA
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Posted 22 Sep 2022 2:07 pm
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Thank you Bob, Jim, and Andy! I put a feeler out on the WTB section of the classified ads.
_________________
Hack Professor of Art
Bass player: upright/electric
Lousy Guitarist
Rookie Steel player (pedal and non-pedal)
Instagram Artwork profile: lloydwalsh7405 |
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Larry Allen
From:
Kapaa, Kauai,Hawaii
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Posted 29 Sep 2022 12:15 pm Weissenborn
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FWIW, on my Old Weissenborn I use John Pearse set #3130HB tuned to E6 .Low E-B-C#-E-G#-B..strong sound and no stress.. 
_________________
Excel steels & Peavey amps,Old Chevys & Motorcycles & Women on the Trashy Side |
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