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Topic: A word about Kline guitars |
Sonny Jenkins
From:
Texas Masonic Retirement Center,,,Arlington Tx
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Posted 28 Sep 2022 10:05 am |
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Since Klines are no longer made,,and I'm down to one,,,I decided I'd try to make one,,,using some of my "new and improved" ideas,,,,,WRONG!!!! Using my remaining Kline as an example,,and my Friend Paul Redmord's VERY detailed drawings of almost every piece of an early model Kline,,I got started on this thing. As I started making each individual piece I soon realized how well thought out the design,,,each and every piece of this puzzle was. I'm here to tell you,,,Joe Kline is a genious,,,,each piece,,,and the way they come together to accomplish a precise function is AMAZING!!! Of course Joe wasn't the first to do the "yoke" type,,"balanced" changer system,,,the old ZBs,,,the early Sho-Bud Mavericks,,,and I'm sure several more. And the dead stop at the end plate,,i.e. Emmons is known to be great for tone.
Of course this is still a work in progress,,,may NEVER be finished as my old hands are starting to give out. Most parts are completed,,,the assembly is slow with very limited use of my hands,,,plus I will be moving soon,,,downsizing and loosing my little shop.
Anyway,,,just a little testimony appreciation for the very accomplished efforts of Joe Kline,,,I, as well as others that I know wish he was still building!!!
As you can see,,,I have a ways to go,,,LOL
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Richard Sinkler
From:
aka: Rusty Strings -- Missoula, Montana
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Posted 28 Sep 2022 10:49 am
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The Kline I had was the best guitar I ever owned, and that includes 2 ZBs, 2 Sho~Buds, Williams,Carter, Mullen, and Dekley. I really wish I still had that Kline.
I hope you can finish this build. I have been following it since you first started posting about it.
_________________
Carter D10 8p/8k, Dekley S10 3p/4k C6 setup,Regal RD40 Dobro, NV400, NV112 . Playing for 54 years and still counting. |
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Dave Zirbel
From:
Sebastopol, CA USA
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Posted 28 Sep 2022 11:44 am
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I loved almost everything about the Kline, except the string spacing. Just a bit tight for me. Well built guitars with tone and stability!!
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Dave Zirbel-
Sierra S-10 (Built by Ross Shafer),ZB, Fender 400 guitars, various tube and SS amps |
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Chris Lucker
From:
Los Angeles, California USA
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Posted 28 Sep 2022 12:24 pm
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I had a Kline D10 9/8 (photos below) that was the most well thought out and machined pedal steel guitar of the 80+ I have or ever had. The Kline was beautifully put together. I liked the pedal rods, and the retainer clips to hold the knees flat when not in use and the ease of playing and balancing the pulls. However, I thought all the mass of parts screwed into the cabinet created a muffled sound without clarity and sparkle. Maybe the keyless headstock attributed to this lack of sparkle as well. I don't know.
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Chris Lucker
Red Bellies, Bigsbys and a lot of other guitars. |
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Sonny Jenkins
From:
Texas Masonic Retirement Center,,,Arlington Tx
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Posted 28 Sep 2022 12:45 pm
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Strange you should say that Chris in light of the well known story of Buddy and Jeff trading licks one time and Buddy making the comment "how come your guitar sounds better than mine"??? Of course, Jeff was playing a Kline,,,,possibly the same Kline I have now that Jeff played on the 83 ISGC
Of course it may have been the keyless headstock,,,I guess that's why Anapeg, Schield, BMI,,now the new Sierra,,,among others were just never up to par or accepted by name players like Tom Brumley and Joe Wright. |
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Chris Lucker
From:
Los Angeles, California USA
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Posted 28 Sep 2022 1:05 pm
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Sonny, I think it could have been all the stuff attached to the guitar -- nine pedals and eight knees.
One of my JCHs had nine pedals and nine knees (1006, I think) and it sounded muffled compared to my D10 8/4 JCH (later made into 8/5). The less-loaded JCH had the newer changer fingers, so that could have been a factor too, but I believe the newer changer had more to do with leverages than with mass.
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Chris Lucker
Red Bellies, Bigsbys and a lot of other guitars. |
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Frank Freniere
From:
The First Coast
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Posted 28 Sep 2022 2:30 pm
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| Sonny Jenkins wrote: |
| Strange you should say that Chris in light of the well known story of Buddy and Jeff trading licks one time and Buddy making the comment "how come your guitar sounds better than mine"??? Of course, Jeff was playing a Kline,,,,possibly the same Kline I have now that Jeff played on the 83 ISGC. |
Actually, I think it was Jeff asking why his guitar sounded better than Buddy’s that day. Buddy’s retort was priceless: “Why, because you have a tin ear.” 😆 |
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Jim Pitman
From:
Waterbury Ctr. VT 05677 USA
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Posted 28 Sep 2022 3:31 pm
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| Cheers to the Kline PSG Sonny and your efforts.. I’ve always wanted one. I did a pinky swear with my friend who owned a Kline S12. Who ever passed first would give his PSG to the survivor. Well……he died but his belongings wound up in probate. I really have no idea where the guitar went. If an S12 shows up I’ll be on it. |
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Sonny Jenkins
From:
Texas Masonic Retirement Center,,,Arlington Tx
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Posted 28 Sep 2022 4:02 pm
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| Frank I believe you are right,,,,guess my memory is going as fast as my hands,,,LOL. Thanks for the correction my friend. |
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Damir Besic
From:
Nashville,TN.
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Posted 28 Sep 2022 10:37 pm
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Fantastic guitars , and yours looks just as good as original Sonny … can’t wait to see it finished…
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https://steelguitarsonline.com/ |
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Bob Carlucci
From:
Candor, New York, USA
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Posted 29 Sep 2022 4:00 am
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Don't know much about the Kline pedal steel itself, never saw one close up, but I'll say this about them.. Over the years I have seen a bunch of them on TV played by pros backing big stars..Steel players that could play and own any steel they want. Given the fact that the Kline was not a guitar produced in great numbers, the many times I have seen them played by great players on TV would indicate to me that they must be very good sounding, very good playing, and very well built guitars. That logo is unmistakable, and I have seen it many times over the years....
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I'm over the hill and hittin'rocks on the way down!
no gear list for me.. you don't have the time...... |
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Joe Krumel
From:
Hermitage, Tn.
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Posted 29 Sep 2022 6:01 am Kline Guitars
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| Rick Troyer in Ohio,Hummingbird Music,Plays Klines. He sounds like a million bucks as they say. |
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Ian Rae
From:
Redditch, England
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Posted 29 Sep 2022 11:10 am
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Sonny, my home-build was done on the Kline principle, although not to your standard of finish! The end-plate tuning gives great tone and rock-solid tuning.
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Make sleeping dogs tell the truth!
Homebuilt keyless U12 7x5, Excel keyless U12 8x8, Williams keyless U12 7x8, Telonics rack and 15" cabs |
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Richard Sinkler
From:
aka: Rusty Strings -- Missoula, Montana
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Posted 29 Sep 2022 4:08 pm
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| Dave Zirbel wrote: |
| I loved almost everything about the Kline, except the string spacing. Just a bit tight for me. Well built guitars with tone and stability!! |
That's one of the things I liked the most about it. I could actually play fast on that guitar.
_________________
Carter D10 8p/8k, Dekley S10 3p/4k C6 setup,Regal RD40 Dobro, NV400, NV112 . Playing for 54 years and still counting. |
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Troy Moore
From:
Washington, USA
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Posted 30 Oct 2022 11:32 am Kline Guitars
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Hi Sonny,
I'm brand new to the forum and I just picked up a Kline Universal 14. I have a Desert Rose S-10 but my goal is to eventually move to the Universal. However, not sure I can just have one now that I have 2. Uh oh!
Quick question, On my Kline there is no LKR lever. In looking at your pics, I'm seeing that yours looks to be missing as well. Is this correct as it seems like it should be there. If it was designed this way, can you give me any tips on set up and why they left that out of the Kline Universal.
I believe mine was owned by a Nashville session player, as I was told it was only used in studio. It's really clean so I'm inclined to believe the story. However, the Copedent setup is not even close to anything I've seen online. I'm thinking it would be best to get it set up back to either the Newman E9/B6 or?? as I'm very new to this and need to transfer the knowledge I'm learning on the Desert Rose over to the Universal.
The one I bought, is serial # 4056 and is set up with 7 pedals a LVL, LKL, P1-7, RKL, and RKR, but as said no LRL.
Any help you can offer would be greatly appreciated. |
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John McClung
From:
Olympia WA, USA
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Posted 30 Oct 2022 3:47 pm
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| Richard Sinkler wrote: |
The Kline I had was the best guitar I ever owned, and that includes 2 ZBs, 2 Sho~Buds, Williams,Carter, Mullen, and Dekley. I really wish I still had that Kline.
I hope you can finish this build. I have been following it since you first started posting about it. |
Rich, it seemed like when we were learning to be steelers in the Bay Area in the mid to late 1970s, a lot of great-sounding players played Klines through a Webb amp. Your rig did sound awesome!
Had a recent student with an S-12 extended E9 Kline, and my old memories weren't wrong, that guitar had tone to the bone. I was tempted to try and buy it, but also knew they're a bit hard to work on, and I tend to be a copedent experimenter.
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E9 INSTRUCTION
▪️ If you want to have an ongoing discussion, please email me, don't use the Forum messaging which I detest! steelguitarlessons@earthlink.net |
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Richard Sinkler
From:
aka: Rusty Strings -- Missoula, Montana
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Posted 31 Oct 2022 4:28 am
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Hi John. Yes, the Kline sounded great through my Webb head with custom made cabinet with a K130. I had split my Twin Reverb into a head and cabinet, so wanted the Webb to be just a head. When I went to Webbs Music to pick up my Kline, John Campbell and Jimmy Webb were showing the Amp to me. I told them I was using a head/cabinet setup, and they said they could probably make me a head unit. John said I got the first head. But even better was around '82 - '83, I was using a rack with a Furman Sound PQ3 parametric EQ/preamp and Furman RV1 spring reverb unit into a Peavey M3000 power amp, into the Peavey-JBL in my dead Session 400. My favorite guitar and amp combo I ever had.
As far as the Kline being hard to work on, I found it to be one of the easiest of the guitars I ever owned to work on. No need to figure out what bell crank and changer holes to put the rods in. The nature of that system, first in the ZB Customs and then perfected by Joe Kline, took care of balancing the pulls automatically. As an example, I was tuning up before a gig and I pressed the B pedal and it went to the floor and stayed there. The hook in the changer that the 3rd string raise was on broke. By the time the gig started, I had fixed it by moving the rod to the lowering finger, tuning the 3rd string to A and lowering it to G# on the pedal. I played that string "backwards" all night while still playing string 6 as a raise. Pretty weird. The next day I moved the broken finger to the 2nd string position since I didn't raise that string, and I only had to knock the changer axle in to the 4th string position to remove and change the fingers. Joe sent me a new finger to replace the broken one. Easy job.
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Carter D10 8p/8k, Dekley S10 3p/4k C6 setup,Regal RD40 Dobro, NV400, NV112 . Playing for 54 years and still counting. |
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