A Scam Warning

Tom Bradshaw · From: Walnut Creek, California, USA

I was recently scammed by a fellow who responded to my request to purchase bell cranks for a Zum steel. He gave his name as Kyle Martin and I ended up getting two email addresses for him: highertornado@gmail.com for his PayPal email and thunderuniversity28@gmail.com for Zelle payments. A nice guy to exchange messages with, but once he received the money, nothing was delivered. I blame this on my ineptitude and trusting nature. My mistake. So, beware of similar scams. ...Tom

Tom Bradshaw · From: Walnut Creek, California, USA

I should mention that "Mr. Kyle Martin" was not a Forum member. Bob warned me that he was probably a scammer, but it was too late. My ignorance cost me. Don't let it cost you. ...Tom

Gary Spaeth · From: Wisconsin, USA

paypal should refund your money if your scammed. worked for me with jeffran.

Tom Bradshaw · From: Walnut Creek, California, USA

I used Zelle. For some reason he provided his email if I chose to use PayPal, but I didn't. My error.

Dwight Lewis · From: Huntsville, Alabama

🙏🙏May GOD replenish what was taken 10 fold; and Wo to the man that would take advantage of honesty....GOD SEES ALL.
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Dekley (PRS-10C), BMI S12

Richard Sinkler · From: aka: Rusty Strings -- Missoula, Montana

Zelle won't help? Not real familiar with them as my bank doesn't offer it.
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Carter D10 8p/8k, Dekley S10 3p/4k C6 setup,Regal RD40 Dobro, NV400, NV112 . Playing for 54 years and still counting.

Andy DePaule · From: Saigon, Viet Nam & Springfield, Oregon

Hi Tom,
Since I met you in 1978 you were always so open and sharing in every way.
Always ready with help for anyone who asks or even when they don't ask.
Hard to find someone who has done more for this community.
Thats one of the things so many of us love about you. Hope you never change.

Like Dwight Lewis said, and I agree it will come back to you in some way.
Some might call it Karma or whatever, but I'm not sure what. It does seem to happen.
Best wishes,
Andy
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Inlaid Star Guitar 2006 by Mark Giles. SD-10 4+5 in E9th; http://luthiersupply.com/instrument-gallery.html
2017 Mullen SD-10, G2 5&5 Polished Aluminum covering. Custom Build for me. Great Steel.
Clinesmith Joaquin Murphy style Aluminum 8 String Lap Steel Short A6th.
Magnatone Jeweltone Series Lap Steel, Circa 1950? 6 String with F#minor7th Tuning.
1956 Dewey Kendrick D-8 4&3, Restoration Project.
1973 Sho~Bud Green SD-10 4&5 PSG, Restoration Project.

Philip Mitrakos · From: The Beach South East Florida

Dave Mudgett · From: Central Pennsylvania and Gallatin, Tennessee

If you put your email in your WTB post, it is an invitation for non-members to try to scam you. There is absolutely nothing we can do to stop this, short of making forums non-readable for non-members, and I imagine determined adversaries would find workarounds to that.

There have even been people who have joined the forum just to try to scam people using a 'legitimate' forum email. Some of these people get filtered out during the registration process, but a few slip through. But at least we can get them out of here once we see suspicious behavior like this. But IMO, extreme caution should be used making deals with new members with no experience here.

Ken Byng · From: Southampton, England

Tom
You have been very trusting with many on here including myself. You don't deserve that kind of treatment, as you have done so much for the steel guitar community over the years. It's un-Christian like to say this, but I hope the person who has done this to you rots in hell.
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Show Pro D10 - amber (8+6), MSA D10 Legend XL Signature - redburst (9+6), Sho-Bud Pro 111 Custom (8+6), Emmons black Push-Pull D10 (8+5), Zum D10 (8x8), Hudson pedal resonator. Telonics TCA-500, Webb 614-E,

Dave Mudgett · From: Central Pennsylvania and Gallatin, Tennessee

I have split a couple of posts - one questioning the authenticity of a member who appears to be a real steel player who recently joined, and a response pointing out that the member in question does appear to be a steel player. I think we should be cautious about "outing" a member if we are not reasonably sure about our facts. The mere fact that a new member hasn't yet posted does not mean they are not legitimate. I agree that we should be cautious dealing with people we don't know. There are other ways to protect ourselves if we don't know a potential buyer or seller.

I know that b0b frequently does research to figure out if prospective new members are actually real people. I sometimes help with this. I know that he sometimes communicates with people if there is any question, before registering them. Many, if not most, actual people have some type of internet presence, even if just white pages or other commercial ID information. Musicians frequently have more extensive internet presence. It's not a perfect system, but we need to be careful to not impugn a member without carefully researching our facts. Each of us has the capability to research a potential buyer/seller in this same way.

In general, doing commercial transactions with people we don't know on the internet is a knotty problem. I personally think that, on this forum, we should reject proposals from unknown non-members. As I stated earlier, I think an important first step is to not put personal contact information on forum buy/sell posts. But we all post under our real names, and a determined adversary may be able to find other ways to contact us.

I think that evaluating a proposal from a member with no history does add an additional wrinkle - the usual response is that we tend to trust them more, and usually this is for good reason. But I think the old adage 'trust but verify' is still a good idea. I would never send a check or other non-recoverable funds like Zelle to someone without being quite sure of their identity and veracity. Paypal (and NOT Friends and Family) is a far better choice precisely because paypal gives recourse if the other party doesn't live up to their end of the agreement.

BTW - using a credit card to purchase something is a generally safer than something like a check or F&F. However one should make sure about the credit card's terms. The period to contest credit card payments is frequently shorter than paypal (which is, I believe, 6 months). I dealt with a once well-thought-of music website that took my funds via credit card and never delivered the item. Further research revealed many, many problems with this business. I found that I had only 60 days to contest that transaction, which I did successfully. But a word to the wise - check your credit card's terms and don't wait too long.

Richard Sinkler · From: aka: Rusty Strings -- Missoula, Montana

Many great points brought up by Dave. NEVER post any personal info on the internet (everywhere, not just here on the forum), well maybe unless you are a business that needs to inform customers how to contact you. Hackers and Phishers use bots to scour the internet for personal info like phone numbers, addresses, etc... They can sell this info to scammers and telemarketers to contact and harass you. And some scammers visit sites that people sell things on, like the forum, and use any personal info they find. I can't believe how many people post this info for the world to see. I won't even post an email address. All that stuff should be exchanged in private emails or PMs.

As far as payments go, I used to use friends and family until I read the post that is a sticky at the top of the classified sections. Now I just tack on the fee in the price of the item and have the buyer use regular Paypal. Best way to protect both the buyer and seller.
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Carter D10 8p/8k, Dekley S10 3p/4k C6 setup,Regal RD40 Dobro, NV400, NV112 . Playing for 54 years and still counting.

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