Is my steel too high?

David Dorwart · From: Orlando, Florida, USA

I find myself playing with my shoulders up to my ears in a shrug position. In this position my forearms are level with the ground. When I drop my shoulders my elbows follow and my arms become unparallel to the ground. After playing this way for a while my shoulders and upper back become fatigued. I’ve added posture as yet another element to focus on but my shoulders keep rising. The legs on my GFI Ultra are standard 26 inch and there’s is about a four inch space between the bottom of the steel and top of my thighs with feet on the pedals. I am 5 feet 10 inches tall if that matters. GFI sells 25 inch legs. I am wondering if I should just purchase a shorter set of legs.

John Swain · From: Winchester, Va

What are you sitting on? Pack seats are 20-21"s.

Roger Rettig · From: Naples, FL

Perhaps you should resist the tendency to 'slump' at the guitar. I assume you meant your forearms are parallel with the ground rather than 'level'?

I'm about your height and my Emmons has 26" legs (fairly standard). I endeavour to keep a straight back and to not allow my elbows to drop. If I get lazy I find that muscle fatigue (across the shoulders and my lower-back) creeps in and I can't continue until I've rested.

David Dorwart · From: Orlando, Florida, USA

I am using a GFI pack a seat. I tried putting a throw pillow on the seat and that raised me up to a point where my forearms were more naturally parallel to the steel but that solution caused my legs to be in a declining position with my knees lower than hips. I am probably the opposite of slumped with my shoulders raised high. When I focus on posture I drop my shoulders back down causing elbows to be lower than wrists so I eventually drift the shoulders back up to correct for that. This raised shoulder position seems to be the natural course when my attention shifts to the bar, pedals levers etc. - putting it all together. Maybe a massage therapist would help but that would take time away from my steeling😉

Jack Stoner · From: Kansas City, MO

I'm 5' 8" and use a 21" Steelers Choice seat. GFI is stock height. I have no problems so I would guess more a posture issue.
_________________
GFI Ultra Keyless S-10 with pad (Black of course) TB202 amp, Hilton VP, Steelers Choice sidekick seat, SIT Strings
Cakewalk by Bandlab and Studio One V4.6 pro DAWs, MOTU Ultralite MK5 recording interface unit

Dave Meis · From: Olympic Peninsula, Washington, USA

Some people's height is in their legs, some in their torso. One size does not fit all.
Start with your seat height set so your thighs are parallel to the floor (disregard the volume pedal for this), Sitting upright (!), adjust your seat location (to the steel ..in/out) so your upper arms aren't reaching out or doing the 'chicken wing' thing, then set the guitar height so your forearms are parallel to the floor in playing position. That should give you a good basic starting position....
If you lean forward (and you will!), try to keep your back straight and your elbows down.
Hope some of this helps..

David Dorwart · From: Orlando, Florida, USA

Seat has has been determined to be correct. Sitting at steel with hands in place my elbows are below my wrists so I inevitably lift my shoulders to raise the elbows. Is there another way to accomplish this without raising shoulders or chicken winging? I’m thinking that dropping the height of the steel would solve this since I already tried raising the seat with pillow and that helped but created other issues So is there any downside to lowering steel height by one inch by getting new legs?

Dave Meis · From: Olympic Peninsula, Washington, USA

No problem at all.. make the steel fit. It’s hard enough if everything is right! 😃
If you drop the steel by an inch, you’ll have to do something about the pedal rods as well, but if you’re lowering it, you can shorten them by cutting some off the threaded end and add some thread with a die nut (leave some of the original thread to start the die nut!).

Dave Meis · From: Olympic Peninsula, Washington, USA

Be sure that the legs are 26”..
For reference, I have checked the legs on my Mullens, SBs, and Emmons and the legs are 23” between the bottom of the clutch to the shoulder of the mounting thread (1/2”-13). I raise my steels 2” and use standard legs with lift kits.
If you’re going to buy new legs, be sure to get what you need.. 👍

David Dorwart · From: Orlando, Florida, USA

I didn’t think about how changing the legs would affect other linkages. I am not mechanically inclined so I wouldn’t be able to make adaptations to the pedal rods. Would GFI have different rods for different size legs? I’ll have to look into that. I’ve heard GFI has great customer service guess I’ll give them a call. Thanks

Dave Meis · From: Olympic Peninsula, Washington, USA

An excellent idea! Good luck, and give yourself every advantage by making the instrument ‘yours’! 👍

Richard Sinkler · From: aka: Rusty Strings -- Missoula, Montana

You could probably buy shorter pedal rods from GFI. Or, have a local machine shop cut and thread them for you. But, I would probably buy new ones so I still have the originals in case I wanted to sell the guitar.
_________________
Carter D10 8p/8k, Dekley S10 3p/4k C6 setup,Regal RD40 Dobro, NV400, NV112 . Playing for 54 years and still counting.

Donny Hinson · From: Glen Burnie, Md. U.S.A.

You didn't say whether you're playing a single or a double. If you play a single body it doesn't matter as much if your forearms aren't parallel to the floor. Many times, I've seen pros play that way. Elbows down below the strings is not always a bad thing. Winking

(A lot of the playing "rules" people give here do not apply to everyone or all situations.)

edited to add: The height of the guitar above your knees can also depend on whether or not you have vertical levers, and how comfortable they are to operate. I don't know if you're "wailing away" or not, but your thumbnail pic seems to show an awkward posture? Have you tried tilting the guitar back slightly to see if that helps?

Dave Meis · From: Olympic Peninsula, Washington, USA

@ Richard: Good idea to preserve the originals! It sounds like maybe it was set up over height from the beginning (if the legs really ARE 26”), but no way of knowing..

@ Donny: Amen! One ‘rule’..make it work for YOU! 👍

Bobby D. Jones · From: West Virginia, USA

I have 2 GFI Ultra S12 guitars. The front legs measure 26 1/2" from the insert shoulder to the bottom of the black rubber foot on both guitars front legs. Back legs are adjustable.

People are built different. So just one position will not fit all.

Something about the way some people are built, If there elbow is below their hand, Allows them freer finger movement. Something about lowering their elbow, Relaxes the tendons to to their fingers for easier faster movement.

From the picture Mr. Emmons must be one of those people.
Ricky Scaggs and Highway 40 Blues will make you search for that perfect position.

Jack Stoner · From: Kansas City, MO

GFI uses proprietary legs, not the adjustable mic stand type. The front legs are not adjustable. The rear legs have a small, maybe 1" max adjustment.

If I remember correctly from his other posts, he has an SD-10 guitar.

To lower it would require new legs and pedal rods.
_________________
GFI Ultra Keyless S-10 with pad (Black of course) TB202 amp, Hilton VP, Steelers Choice sidekick seat, SIT Strings
Cakewalk by Bandlab and Studio One V4.6 pro DAWs, MOTU Ultralite MK5 recording interface unit

David Dorwart · From: Orlando, Florida, USA

Thanks for all the replies. I have concluded Jack is correct here - it’s a posture issue. I just can’t seem to play this thing without lifting my shoulders. The steel is fine - it is me that needs adjusting. I am going to add “ posture check “ as yet another element to incorporate. My fatigued shoulders will remind me to pay attention to that. I wonder if there is some training technique or method that will help me keep the shoulders down. Perhaps that’s fodder for a separate thread. Thanks for talking this through with me

Ron Pruter · From: Arizona, USA

David, something doesn't sound right. Have some one take some pictures of you playing. I am curious about your lap to steel distance and other fators. It could be your seat, your steel or both. Ron
_________________
Emmons SKH Le Grande, '73 Fender P/J bass, Tick tack bass, Regal high strung, USA Nashville 112.

David Dorwart · From: Orlando, Florida, USA

Shrugged shoulders

Ron Pruter · From: Arizona, USA

Thx Dave. Looks, to me, the stool and guitar are too high. Consider if your thighs were parallel to the ground, which is my preferred position BTW,(stool lowered). At that point both the knee levers and deck would be too high. Solution to that is to lower the guitar. A side photo would be helpful to prove my point. Good luck. I'm sure you'll get this figured out. RP
PS..A confusing thing about this picture is that it appears that if you dropped your shoulders, fore arms would be totally level with the floor???
_________________
Emmons SKH Le Grande, '73 Fender P/J bass, Tick tack bass, Regal high strung, USA Nashville 112.

David Dorwart · From: Orlando, Florida, USA

Thanks Ron I noticed that also. I’m not sure why I’m doing this it is involuntary. It’s something I have to train my way out of. I’m wondering if a seat with back might help.

Donny Hinson · From: Glen Burnie, Md. U.S.A.

Your playing position should be totally relaxed, it should be as comfortable as possible to prevent fatigue and strain. You should not be holding your shoulders up unless that is normal seated posture for you in other activities as well, such as eating, reading and writing at a desk, etc.

I am also 5'-10", and I had to cut off about an inch and a half from my "normal height" steel seat legs so it would be comfortable for me. That said, it does look like your seat may be too high, but what works for you should be primary. If you can't sit comfortably, playing for several hours, there IS a problem!

K Maul · From: Hadley, NY/Hobe Sound, FL

You COULD try a keyboard type bench. They have lots of options for height adjustment. I prefer them over the standard pack seat. I have a nice seat that I just don’t use.
_________________
Kevin Maul: Airline, Beard, Clinesmith, Decophonic, Evans, Excel, Fender, Fluger, Gibson, Hilton, Ibanez, Justice, K+K, Live Strings, MOYO, National, Oahu, Peterson, Quilter, Rickenbacher, Sho~Bud, Supro, TC, Ultimate, VHT, Williams, X-otic, Yamaha, ZKing.

Ken Morgan · From: Midland, Texas, USA

As a newbie relying on 50 yrs of 4 and 6 string playing, I’m finding the forward side is a bit easier to play than a fairly level one. Only an inch or so makes a difference…to me. Using an old piano stool from a 1930s upright.
_________________
67 Shobud Blue Darling III, scads of pedals and such, more 6 strings than I got room for

Ken Morgan
Midland, TX

Forum Index > Pedal Steel		Next oldest topic :: Next newest topic