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Post new topic E9th + C6th = D13th, from D-10 to S-12
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Author Topic:  E9th + C6th = D13th, from D-10 to S-12
Johnny Cox


From:
Williamsom WVA Lives in Hallettsville Texas
Post  Posted 21 Jun 2022 6:11 am    
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Roger, might I suggest on P8 that you lower string 7 to F as opposed to raising string 8. It gives you the normal 8th pedal plus by moving back to the 8th string you have the minor 7th in the low side like Chalker did a lot. Also eliminates the need for canceling the 8th string raise and lower. Those can be a beast to tune.
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Johnny "Dumplin" Cox
"YANKIN' STRINGS & STOMPIN' PEDALS" since 1967.
Sho-Bud, Jackson and MSA pedal steels. Telonics,Quilter and Sho-Bud amplifiers and volume pedals.
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Roger Rettig


From:
Naples, FL
Post  Posted 21 Jun 2022 7:53 am    
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Johnny:

Check your PMs, please.

One slight revision on my D-10 set up early in the thread: my P8 also raises the 1st to D#. It's not of great importance at this point, though.

b0b's charts are terrific but that technology is beyond me. I've no doubt that omitted to include that pull when I sent him my D10 setup.
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b0b


From:
Cloverdale, CA, USA
Post  Posted 21 Jun 2022 7:57 am    
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You lost me there, Dumplin. Confused
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Roger Rettig


From:
Naples, FL
Post  Posted 23 Jun 2022 5:32 am    
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Here's the latest chart which takes Johnny's suggestion into account.

I'm still waiting to pull the trigger on a new guitar; I have an operation tomorrow (6/24) and I just want to be sure I wake up after the anesthetic before I send a deposit!! Smile


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Earnest Bovine


From:
Los Angeles CA USA
Post  Posted 23 Jun 2022 5:43 am    
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You might consider adding a pull to your P3 (your A pedal) : raise string 6 B to C natural. That will avoid the problems of sympathetic vibration of the unison B on string 5. The unison B is a useful effect, and is still available with strings 2 and 6. And if you don't like the raise to C, just loosen the tuning nut and it goes away.
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Roger Rettig


From:
Naples, FL
Post  Posted 23 Jun 2022 6:38 am    
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I'm afraid that, at least for a while, I'd catch that C note on the 'extra' string. It's certainly a nice sus 4 with the A and B pedal (I wanted that, anyway: see RKL) but what would have greater consequences: a slightly dissonant overtone or a wrong note?

I should have more self-belief and be confident that I'll get the new 'grips' down quickly, though. Smile
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b0b


From:
Cloverdale, CA, USA
Post  Posted 23 Jun 2022 10:47 am    
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On D6th I have a pedal that raises A to B. I sometimes use the B to C knee lever along with it to avoid that sympathetic vibration, especially on slow songs.
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Roger Rettig


From:
Naples, FL
Post  Posted 23 Jun 2022 11:06 am    
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The more I ponder it, the more I like Earnest's suggestion. As he points out, I can roll it off if it doesn't work for me.
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b0b


From:
Cloverdale, CA, USA
Post  Posted 23 Jun 2022 11:28 am    
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Roger Rettig wrote:
The more I ponder it, the more I like Earnest's suggestion. As he points out, I can roll it off if it doesn't work for me.

On D6th I strum chords a lot. That's my excuse for not doing it. Razz It makes sense on D13th, though.
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Roger Rettig


From:
Naples, FL
Post  Posted 23 Jun 2022 11:54 am    
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Smile

It could come in useful, of course, IF I can learn to pick around it when I have to.

But that was was the point of the B-C raise on RKL - a fat 7th chord open and a sus 4 pedals down. Confused
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Lee Gauthier


From:
Victoria, BC, Canada
Post  Posted 23 Jun 2022 2:48 pm    
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I've had mine setup both with and without the B-C raise on the A-pedal. I often think of A + B as a big C root Major 7 chord so having the B-C on A makes a lot of sense to me. You could have it in both places and just keep it on RKL too.

The sympathetic vibration with the A pedal and string 5 can be annoying when you are pick blocking or doing long slides on and off the A pedal. You need to dedicate a finger to muting it to keep things clean. I think it's less of an issue with palm blocking because you regularly mute all the strings.

One more thought, if you add B-C on the A-pedal you can still get the unison Bs with your C pedal. I really like that sound and use it all the time.
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Roger Rettig


From:
Naples, FL
Post  Posted 23 Jun 2022 3:01 pm    
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Good thinking, Lee. I like the idea more and more.

I'm ordering on Monday so, while the actual setup does need to be written in stone quite yet, I feel we're almost, if not completely, there.

I have a hankering for a lower on the 12th down to B but we don't think there's a logical place. It's not worth another pedal!
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Lee Gauthier


From:
Victoria, BC, Canada
Post  Posted 23 Jun 2022 4:10 pm    
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Isn't D to B on string 12 on your P7 or has that changed since the last revision?
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Roger Rettig


From:
Naples, FL
Post  Posted 23 Jun 2022 4:19 pm    
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Ignore what I posted re: P7 (and about a solitary low B. I wasn't thinking clearly, what with 5.30 am dialysis today and surgery later.

With the exception of adding the B-C on P3 as per Earnest's suggestion, I think the chart is finished.
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Roger Rettig


From:
Naples, FL
Post  Posted 25 Jun 2022 3:10 pm    
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Here's the finished setup. It takes both Johnny Cox' and Earnest Bovine's suggestions into account.

Splits are as follows:

Str 4: LKL2/P6 = D#
Str 6: P3 with P4 = A#
Str 11: P3 with P4 = A#

I should add that, while it's a stretch, I can get LKL2 and P6 together on my Emmons D-10 (I checked to see if I could) so it should be possible on the new guitar.



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Johnny Cox


From:
Williamsom WVA Lives in Hallettsville Texas
Post  Posted 25 Jun 2022 5:13 pm    
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Roger Rettig wrote:
Johnny:

Check your PMs, please.

One slight revision on my D-10 set up early in the thread: my P8 also raises the 1st to D#. It's not of great importance at this point, though.

b0b's charts are terrific but that technology is beyond me. I've no doubt that omitted to include that pull when I sent him my D10 setup.

I guess I meant your P7, ( normally P8 ). It allows for the same grip spacing as a 10 string C6th. Also when you move to the 9th string you have a minor 7th.
_________________
Johnny "Dumplin" Cox
"YANKIN' STRINGS & STOMPIN' PEDALS" since 1967.
Sho-Bud, Jackson and MSA pedal steels. Telonics,Quilter and Sho-Bud amplifiers and volume pedals.
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Roger Rettig


From:
Naples, FL
Post  Posted 25 Jun 2022 5:45 pm    
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Right. That m7 will be useful.

How do you think it looks? I'm happy with it.
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Darren Mortillaro


From:
Nevada, USA
Post  Posted 26 Jun 2022 5:28 pm    
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I ordered a S12 from MSA, and gave them this copedent below. Hopefully this is still considered the best setup.

Question, once I get my steel, can anyone here help me with lessons? We could do them remotely or somewhere in ATX.

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